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Terry,

I didn't throw the first stone. Just so you understand, when someone uses their posts as a platform to push their politics especially when they are based upon lies, I will respond. Now, Bill can ban me fi he so choses, otherwise people like you have two choices. You can whine like you did, or you can simply ignore what i have to say. I will respect the president and defend him when he is not the blame for an issue. If you don't like my willingness to respect the President of the USA, to you I say, Tuff Sh*t.

As for this change, I can see merit in it whether you can or not. In some ways, this could be good even for the small miner and especially good for the recreational nugget hunter. If a the small miner's claim is really worth something, then paying the extra amount is not going to be a major problem.

Now, those people who are simply sitting on a multitude of claims and doing so for speculation will have to pay for that privlige. I suspect many who don't work a claim may let some go, thus making more area available for the honest prospector to hunt.

So, I expect to see more land open up for legal nugget hunting as the result. This also means that many of you will also have a better opportunity to own your own claim in gold producing areas and I see nothing wrong with that.

Reg

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Well I don't see any reason to be too proud of any of our so called congress,

or their leader,or any need to defend any of them.

I wouldn't be too quick to gloat over any claims that get dropped either. Our fine

politicians have learned that they can get away with this crap ,and it has passed

the test. Not long ago they used the same tactics to grab millions of acres in several

states in an omnibus package. They shut down millions of acres to mining claims

with a federal decree and got away with it too.

Now that they have perfected the method ,it is only a matter of time before they

really show their true intentions. Hell it will be a piece of cake now,for one of them

to slip in a rider on a future package ,that will be the final blow. One bright morning

you may wake up to a new law that forbids all detecting or prospecting on federal

land unless you have a claim ,permits,or high dollar lease.

Don't think that the hobby thing will save you either! They don't care about what

you spend,or contribute to the economy either. These same people have shut

down companies that have provided billions of dollars to the economy ,and didn't

even blink. On the other hand they took our money to bail out a bunch of thieves

and crooks,and let most of them walk free,and continue to screw us in the ground.

I just don't believe that we are going to get a fair deal from either party, or the court

system,unless the whole bunch is fired and replaced,with common sense people with

some degree of honesty and decency.

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Been away from the computer for a few days and all I can say is WOW. Reg, you are the one that needs to bring your head out of the dark and into the light. I have no bullcrap political agenda behind this post. It is only meant to be to spread information about something that can effect us all. While you may indeed know how a detector works, you should go back to Government 101 and learn about how congress works. The Omnibus Bill was certainly originally sponsored by a ®, but who slipped this amendment into a bill that ALWAYS get a yes vote is what we need to find out.

Name calling and attacks always come from a weak platform...........It's the only defense a weak person has when they are wrong.

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Terry,

I didn't throw the first stone. Just so you understand, when someone uses their posts as a platform to push their politics especially when they are based upon lies, I will respond. Now, Bill can ban me fi he so choses, otherwise people like you have two choices. You can whine like you did, or you can simply ignore what i have to say. I will respect the president and defend him when he is not the blame for an issue. If you don't like my willingness to respect the President of the USA, to you I say, Tuff Sh*t.

As for this change, I can see merit in it whether you can or not. In some ways, this could be good even for the small miner and especially good for the recreational nugget hunter. If a the small miner's claim is really worth something, then paying the extra amount is not going to be a major problem.

Now, those people who are simply sitting on a multitude of claims and doing so for speculation will have to pay for that privlige. I suspect many who don't work a claim may let some go, thus making more area available for the honest prospector to hunt.

So, I expect to see more land open up for legal nugget hunting as the result. This also means that many of you will also have a better opportunity to own your own claim in gold producing areas and I see nothing wrong with that.

Reg

Hey Reg! Knock yourself out man. Steve and I both got shot at so you could say anything you want. I just don't understand why you have to make it a personel attack.

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One thing no one is mentioning is that, if you do the labor, and file proof of labor, then the maintenance fees are not payable so long as you are under the small miners' waiver. I see nothing in any of the language posted that addresses it. Personally, I have always done the labor on my claims and continue to do so ... If it's not worth the work on it, then there's no point in having the claim(s) in the first place! ... :twocents: ... Cheers, Unc

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Uncle Ron

I did mention this above,in a left handed way. You just didn't catch my drift.

They didn't need a new bill to eliminate a lot of the small miner assessment

type claims. They already have the laws in place for that,they have just been

lax in enforcing them.

I know that there is a lot of guys like you that do understand the rules and

follow them. On the other hand there is a hell of a bunch that don't. The BLM

has not been checking the assessment work requirements ,or proof of labor

very close ,and letting things slide. I do know of a couple blocks of claims that

they did void ,in the last couple years on account of false assessment documents.

I know several claimants that have claimed work that is not allowed by the law too.

I know one club that may have some problems too. They have been claiming clean

up and trash patrol as assessment work. This does not meet legal assessment work

requirements. The 10 claims or less thing is used by paper claimers,and commercial

claim sellers. Most of the claim peddlers on the internet,have used the small miner

exemption over and over. The BLM is aware of how people are taking advantage of

the system too. Say one guy and a group of family members and buddies can claim

160 acres as one claim. They can do this 10 times and still file a small miner exemption.

They don't pay one cent in assessment fees on all that ground before dumping it or

selling it. If they do claim assessment work,it is usually a bogus document. I am sure you

are familiar with one such operation in your area.

This all has been in the works for awhile. The feds are just getting their ducks in a row.

I would bet that in the near future ,anyone claiming a small miners exemption will be

targeted for an on ground visit,and proof of labor will get some special attention too.

I went with the fee payment for various reasons. In order to do any work on my claims

that meet legal assessment work requirements. I would have to file a plan or notice.

I have an existing road to my claims,but can not do any road work without posting a

bond and filing a plan. The same is true with any bore holes,trenches or most legitimate

exploration work. Assay work does count,but you can pay the claim fees for the cost of

a couple legitimate assays. You are not allowed to blast or use machinery,so it is kind of

tough to do any legal assessment work,that would stand up in court. I can assure you

that the BLM knows this too. Believe me,in a contest,the BLM will use the lack of proof

of legal assessment work in a heartbeat. I think that the feds are getting ready to do

some house cleaning on questionable claims. Do you wonder why the geo communicator

suddenly left the scene,or about some other recent activities?

I would also bet that the small miner exemption and association claims rule get fine tuned

in a future package too. I did an edit to add the following thoughts.

Why would the government only go after only the cash paying claimants,and not pay any

attention to others with large holdings held only with a small miners exemption? This is a

form of discrimination at best. For the record lode claims and corporation claims are already

charged fees per 20 acre claim, so they are totally out of the picture with this bill. What the

hell is the difference between a fee payers association claim and a small miners association

claim,that allows a fee payer to get the shaft and the others go about business as usual ?

There is something totally rotten with this deal. Since the patent thing is dead,the assessment

labor thing ,will probably get buried in the same hole with it soon. It could be interesting to see

what else shows up in the next package.

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Hey sawmill,

Your statement, "I have an existing road to my claims,but can not do any road work without posting abond and filing a plan."

I remove fallen trees from my access road every year and claim it on my "Small Minor's Waiver", and the BLM accepts it.

I have never seen anything about posting a bond or POO to comply with a waiver.

If you have, could you direct me to it?

I try to comply with regs, I'd hate to lose my claim over a stupid oversight.

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Steel Pan

The difference is you are removing surface material that has fallen into a road

in the form of trees, This you can claim as assessment work. It is all about the fine

print and details. This is why I chose to go with payments and not chance losing a

claim over a difference of opinion later on.

I have no trees,but do have washouts and erosion . My work would require equipment

and grading,both require a bond and plan. At the present my road is still passable and

I see no need to rock the boat. To be honest it is still one of a few that the BLM has not

closed yet. I hold my breath waiting for them to close it too. Grading or altering the

road surface does require approval.

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Jason G

Picking up trash is not a legal type of assessment work .

And to all others that are interested.

Not filing a plan or notice until the time is right is ,part of knowing how to develop a real mine.

Wasting time and money to file a plan just to claim assessment work is not a bright idea either.

You can do a hell of a lot of mining and exploration work ,without filing plans and notices or

having the feds looking over your shoulder at every move. Just because someone doesn't

file a mess of plans and notices doesn't mean that they are not working. Sometimes by filing

a plan that is not really needed at the time ,you could lose your claims,with one tiny slip up.

Taking the time to prospect,and test ,before filing plans,and moving in heavy equipment can

save a lot of hassle later. It does take time,and that is why a lot of folks hang on to a claim for

years. Why tie up a bunch of money and time in a plan until you are ready to go for the big one?

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Jason G

Sorry about that,the plan thing was not intended for you.

I forgot to start a different topic on the same post in the correct manner. :grr01:

I went back and fixed it.thanks for letting me know. I doubt that many folks

have read the legal assessment work requirements too. The link you posted

will probably scare the hell out of some.

Here is another little tidbit for any people claiming assessment work. The BLM

will accept just about any paper work and not say a thing about it being legitimate.

Just because they accept it ,does not mean your claim is valid against others or

the BLM in a later contest. If another party can prove that your work did not meet

federal standards, they can file and take your claim.

I used to do this type of work for real mining companies when checking out prospects,

or potential leases. You get all kinds crawling out of the wood work when a mining company

shows up, wanting to lease claims,or sell a claim that is not valid by law. Lots of those

claims crumble fast when held up in the light by a judge. Be darn sure that your work will

stand the test,and you have the documents to back it up. This is one reason I don't play

the small miner waiver game. A judge can't argue with a BLM cash receipt ,but he can ruin

your day with his opinion on some questionable documents.

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Steel Pan

I agree about proving your work,but in your previous question about needing a

plan or bond you left out some real important details. You can disregard my statement

that you were in the clear.

These photos and post provided some proof that you may not want to be seen by

the wrong people. I am not going into any details here,but you are treading on thin ice,

with the feds. Remember that no good deed by a private citizen will go unpunished,

without prior approval in writing .

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Steel Pan

I agree about proving your work,but in your previous question about needing a

plan or bond you left out some real important details. You can disregard my statement

that you were in the clear.

These photos and post provided some proof that you may not want to be seen by

the wrong people. I am not going into any details here,but you are treading on thin ice,

with the feds. Remember that no good deed by a private citizen will go unpunished,

without prior approval in writing .

Tried to send you a PM for an explanation but your box must be full.

PM me, if you would, explaining details.

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....and so, my fellow prospectors.....

Pay heed to the rules and regs, research situations and options, And don't ever just assume you are doing the right thing just because it's FEELS right to you. I'm not saying I did wrong, because I really didn't, I just need to be more diligent in my adhearance (sp?) to a few regs, details ya know. Opinions, not just rules and regs, of those in charge matter, and THEY can vary quite a bit.

If ya don't know, ASK! Sometimes it's hard to ask a quesiton when ya don't know what or how to ask, but that's one of the benefits of this forum.

Take the horse out of the barn, run him around the corral and see what the other cowboys think.

Thanks sawmill. :wubu:

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Yo Sawmill and all .. That's a great observation and discussion on the type of work needed ... There's at least two types of work that are legitimate, IMHO, and that is processing material and maintaining and assuring access to the ore ... There are others, of course, but those two actions are essential to advancing on the prospect ... The claimant, of course, has made a valuable discovery at the beginning of the process, (something the Ebay boys out of Wittman, Morristown and where ever "Sundance" camps seem a tad bit shaky on... a couple colors in a pan does NOT constitute a valuable discovery!!!!) ... Frankly, there's no reason to claim or to buy a claim that will not support a commercial operation ...THAT was the intention of the 1872 law--to promote the development of mineral recover for the benefit of the American economy ... I have owned in part or totally hundreds of claims in the past 35 years, and they all were potentially commercial grade ... A large percentage were commercially viable, except for the dumbasses trying to do with a cat what a pan could do and visa versa, if you know what I mean ... Viva le mining consortiums out of Vancouver, BC, and Salt Lake City....Been there, done that, got the T-shirt (and sold it) ... There is no such thing as a "recreational" claim ... Cheers, Unc

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Observation and Question:

1. OBSERVATION: Recovery of gold by means of electronic prospecting, unlike the traditional methods of hard rock mining or digging for placer deposits, involves the location and separation of "trash", i.e., metallic items or highly mineralized stones, from the gold. Similar to the above referenced traditional methods, electronic prospecting involves sampling.

2. QUERY: Has anyone run across published federal authority that addresses a small miner's proof of assessment work that consists of the above referenced forms of labor?

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Bottom Line! If you spend $100.00 to Realize $150.00 you only made $50.00 Minus Taxes. There go you made improvements towards the mining.

You all are making this harder then it is.

What about the Gas, My time, Equipment purchased to complete the task, Truck mileage and Repairs?

If all of that is good for the Tax man it's good enough for them.

???

I've always documented that stuff and included it in my Assessment work.

In the past it flew threw with flying colors.

Last claim I had prove less then productive and I dropped it.

The Spot I used as Discovery and Claimed around was hot but did not last.

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Micro Nugget

I get the feeling that your question is a tongue in cheek type,as in pulling

our leg.

If you are referring to metal detecting,there is a difference between sampling,

and sorting. :idea: I don't believe that the BLM would buy sorting nails and bullets

while detecting as assessment work. :ROFL: Although a good lawyer could keep

them in suspense for a time with the hot rocks. :brows:

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Bottom Line! If you spend $100.00 to Realize $150.00 you only made $50.00 Minus Taxes. There go you made improvements towards the mining.

You all are making this harder then it is.

What about the Gas, My time, Equipment purchased to complete the task, Truck mileage and Repairs?

If all of that is good for the Tax man it's good enough for them.

Tax man says I can't claim any of that stuff 'cause it's a "Hobby".

I can claim the property taxes though. Doesn't that nullify the "Hobby" factor? :idunno:

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I don't know what the BLM would buy or not buy, but obviously much gold has been found with metal detectors. It is a very legitimate method of prospecting and small scale mining. One could argue that it dramatically cuts down on surface disturbance when compared to other methods of mining. This is even more so when metal detectorists, based on unwritten rules, fill their holes.

The fact that some metal detectorists have been prosecuted under the Antiquities Act for removing common trash from the environment leads me to believe that this should be addressed so that detectorists as well as government personnel have a common standard to go by. Obviously, everyone wants a cleaner environment and nobody wants to go to jail.

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Tax man says I can't claim any of that stuff 'cause it's a "Hobby".

I can claim the property taxes though. Doesn't that nullify the "Hobby" factor? :idunno:

In order to be able to account for all expenses you also need to show income from your mining, something that not many are willing to report. Otherwise it is just a hobby........I tried it for 3 years. Used my mining/jewelry business and the rules and paperwork involved made me move back to a hobby operation.

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