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GeoJack

Phyical Confrotation

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So I was down at our local park, detecting under the roadway bridge when a bar owner that fronts the roadway comes down into the creek bottom to run me out. Physically blocking me from moving in any direction.

What would you do? I asked him if he was familiar with road easements and drainage easements and told him the roadway we were under is not his property. Explained to him about assault laws as well.

Anyway, walked away from the confrontation but it's not over. Going back today with Zillow images of the property lines and the easements shown.

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I was directly under the bridge on the north side of the creek. Will be contacting SO when I go back over there today. Will add some extra tools to my kit for working the creek bottom.

Wife say walk away but I still have memories of being bullied as a kit and don't think I like the feeling of this confrontation as it leaves me feeling the same way.

What would you do? Anyone for an outing?

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Sure, give me a call.

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Good advice to just walk away. Of course the wife is right.

Don't call the SO. If you decide to go back it will work against you in court. You will be provoking him by going back the second time. The deputy will tell you the same if he is honest with you.

Guys like that generally have a history of violence so be prepared. Get him down under the bridge and loosen his teeth. A fellow like that is usually a pretty good guy but his teeth may be too tight and that is making him a crabby p&i<k. Once his teeth get looser he will get a lot nicer. It is like a chiropractic adjustment only inside the head. I swear it works great and I have cured a lot of guys that would have gone through live as gritty little buttholes.

Don't forget to leave him a bill for the beating. If you are going to perform professional services you should be paid. I suggest that a minimum charge of $5 be asessed for each tooth loosening session under the bridge. If the fight spills over into the creek extra charges may apply. Just take a little invoice book and pin one to the back of his collar. Make sure to leave him face down so he does not get something caught in his throat as the "novocaine" is wearing off.

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Pick your fights ... there are plenty of other places to go detect! Now having said that ... Get your friends together with picket signs in front of the bar on Friday and Saturday night and/or during high profile TV sporting events ... That will hurt him more than anything else you can do including ... God forbid shooting him. Hurt him in the pocketbook where every entrepeneur hurts most! And if you are planning to tell the SO or local police about anything be sure to tell them you are planning the boycott and picket march and be sure to assure him it will be non-violent ... at least on your end. Any violence should come from the bar man ... not you ... sounds like he will be a willing subject for same!! And that will be his own undoing! Have fun!

Mike F

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Ya know, he probably had trouble under that bridge before. Betcha that if he knew you were not a threat he might be trainable? maybe if you went and had a beer and smiled and made some conversation with him and tried to be nice. And then tell him you are going to go over there and detect and maybe you might come in and buy another beer next go 'round.

...Then if he follows you under the bridge loosen his teeth.

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How about I go down and tell him I found this under "His" bridge and I have posted it on every gold detecting site I can find on the internet? Expect some good traffic.

Anywho, does anyone know the legal deal about detecting the side of a county maintained roadway or the creeks and rivers that run under them? I only detect up to the fence line of properties on the roadway.

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Also, this is Garden Valley Park, the R&R Cafe which is across from it. Grandfathered in liquor dispensing just down the street from the local high school. Knew the kid's father and we were friends.

This guy wears clothing that looks like either fire dept. or police dept. issue stuff. Drives a retired cop car with the teardrop spotlights still mounted on it. Yeah, one of those.

Been a looser for a long time and likes to bully people from the attitude I got. I still remember the kid who bullied me back when I was about 11 and this bile taste came back to me yesterday and last night. Had to take a sleeping pill so I could get it off my mind.

Sucks, and I don't like it one bit. I'm 5'8" and about 175, he is about 6'2 and 200. Me 59 him about 35.

darn, got that bile taste again.

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"...This guy wears clothing that looks like either fire dept. or police dept. issue stuff. Drives a retired cop car with the teardrop spotlights still mounted on it. Yeah, one of those..."

Faux paramilitary guys are always a problem.

They are territorial.

They perceive threats where there are none.

They usually have buddies that have the same paramilitary fantasys.

These kinds of traits, plus the reasons in previous posts above, make it a no-win situation.

People are real edgy these days.

I'd look for another place to detect.

I do like the whole train of thought about loosening his teeth though...

but as a literary description, not a physical reality.

(sort of joking but...)

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I think having a beer or two in his bar, then detecting with no physical confrontation would be good. People like him are easy, just totally ignore him and treating him like a ghost will work just fine. No need to loosen teeth. Geojack just needs some company.

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Agree with the non-confrontation. We were very close to contact and all I could think about was attorneys. That was enough for me to go get in my car and leave. Been very stress out with life lately and a good ass kickin', received or administered was sounding pretty good yesterday but I was glad I walked away.

He has been a scourge in the community for some time and we all know about him so it was easy to take him for what he perceives himself to be.

He was lucky though, once I got started, I doubt if I would have been able to find the space in time to pull back. Water was "just" deep enough.

Moving on...

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Maybe he has something hidden under that brigde that he does not want found.

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:arrowheadsmiley: You are in the process of a felony in the state of kalif anytime you dig in/under/by any bridge/abutment/overpass. You can not dig in any ANY AREAS ADJACENT OR SUBAJACENT TO ANY BRIDGE. By legal defination that also includes ALL WITHIN 50-100' or your outta there. Jim B got a nice ol' fine of $863 here in Redding courts and I went to court with him so no internet bs. All that fella has to do is call Caltrans/sheriff/CHP and your in deep crappola,soooo,so much for confrontation :arrowheadsmiley: John

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Hoser John the man with the answers when it comes to possible felonies.

Bless you man...you crack me up and - more to the point - you are usually right.

I like the way you share lessons learned the hard way.

Too bad most of us don't get the point

and have to go out and learn the hard way ourselves.

It's a great life...

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I'd go back at 5pm with 2 huge signs that say such and such bar is now officially a gay bar, all are welcome!! and stick it in the ground a block from the bar in both directions.

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John,

Thanks for the heads up. People are down under that bridge and the Foresthill Bridge as well as the highway 49 bridge at the confluence and just about every other bridge up here every day. Nice to know.

I just checked with the Georgetown Divide Rec. District on the park and it is with permit only.

PENAL CODE SECTION 602

(d) Digging, taking, or carrying away from any lot situated within the limits of any incorporated

city, without the license of the owner or legal occupant, any earth, soil, or stone.

(e) Digging, taking, or carrying away from land in any city or town laid down on the map or plan

of the city, or otherwise recognized or established as a street, alley, avenue, or park, without the license

of the proper authorities, any earth, soil, or stone.

I just got off the phone with CalTrans in Placerville and they know of NO laws that state the above. The Fish and Game control the waterways.

Unless Jim B. was dredging or digging under the pillars or foundations, she said there is no such restriction.

I will continue with this until I have contacted everyone and have documentation to confirm or rebutt.

Thanks.

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email off to F&G.

Continuing to source info.

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Bucket, the place would be full of plaid shirted women folk the very first night. :D Do them a favor as the only people who go there have half their teeth missing from the crank they smoke.

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:arrowheadsmiley: You are in the process of a felony in the state of kalif anytime you dig in/under/by any bridge/abutment/overpass. You can not dig in any ANY AREAS ADJACENT OR SUBAJACENT TO ANY BRIDGE. By legal defination that also includes ALL WITHIN 50-100' or your outta there. Jim B got a nice ol' fine of $863 here in Redding courts and I went to court with him so no internet bs. All that fella has to do is call Caltrans/sheriff/CHP and your in deep crappola,soooo,so much for confrontation :arrowheadsmiley: John

As usual John on the dime.... Can we all say easement. Sux, but it is the law for sure.

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Jack, I cant believe people actually go to that bar. Thats scarry.

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So, we learned or confirmed a couple valuable things, dare i say nuggets, here...

1. Easements are legally off limits, but this tasked with enforcing the laws around this have no clue... Shocking!

2. Bucket appears to be quite the passive aggressive type :)

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Still not quite clear on the easements being legally off limits. Still unclear if Jim C. was busted for digging around foundations or just in the general area that got him his fine. As I has said, just about every bridge in El Dorado County has had people under them the last 30 years that I know of on weekends panning for gold or detecting. Still waiting from F&G and I'll be contacting SO and CHP as well to get their take.

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CHP report, not a problem on roadway shoulders or under bridges. Only if you are accessing the area via a freeway are they going to get involved. Officer Rodriguez of the Placerville office.

F&G still waiting on email, I'll call the office this morning.

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Ok, after talking with SO they pointed me to their site which has all the codes.

Here she is boys and girls:

II. ENCROACHMENT REGULATIONS

12.08.080 Excavations.

It is unlawful for any person to make any excavation on any portion of the right-of-way of any

county highway without having first obtained an encroachment permit therefor, or in violation of

any of the provisions or conditions of the permit or of this chapter.

B.A permit shall not be issued for the extraction, taking, conversion or recovery of gold, silver or

other natural elements by means of, but not limited to, digging, dredging, sluicing, planning

or electronic detection methods, from any portion of a county right- of-way, whether such

right-of-way is created by an instrument of record or by prescription. (Ord. 3429 §1, 1984:

prior code §11,221)

darn, I will be the first to admit that I didn't know this, "obviously". I think they meant "panning" instead of "planning".

When you're wrong, you're wrong.

CHP didn't have a clue, nor did CalTrans or SO when questioned. Only found it when looking for it.

Good call John.

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Easements are private property, belonging to the munincipality, state or federal govt, utiliy co, boundary commission, irrigation district, etc.etc.

Sure you can get by with being there and doing about whatever you want but if anyone takes exception to that you are breaking the law. Just like a public building, easements are PRIVATE PROPERTY. So whomever the easement is deeded to controls access and use. The public actually has no rights to enter most public property unless it is with the explicit consent of the owner of that property and only for that specific use.

All maintained roadways are public property that is privately owned by the city, county, state or feds. All real property is deeded to the governmental entity that controls it and is not public domain even though the public may be free to enter and use it. So there is no such thing as "open land" on the roadsides, under power lines or pipelines, under bridges or in turnouts. If the land is designated for public access you can be there but only use it for access. You can't go on a pipeline or power easement at all.

Public easements are generally the jurusdiction of law enforcement. But private easements like the RR and the power lines are a mixed bag. generally where a power easement goes across private land the access rights remain with the owner and is shared with the power company. But under big transmission lines the property is often under complete control of the easement holder.

While it means that officially you cant find a little spot under the bridge to pan or detect, it also means that you could possibly find permission to work within limitations on easements that are not deeded to the public. A private owner or company can grant permission if they want to. And if you contacted the right people there is always the possibility that you can get on an inside track somewhere. And when you stop to think about it when you are on a public easement anyone can cause you trouble. If you are on a power or railroad easement only a certain few people are going to be able to run you off. In some cases that may make all the difference in the world.

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