Jump to content
Nugget Shooter Forums

Final Meeting on Vulture Mountains Mgmt. Plan


Recommended Posts

Well, this just sucks! The county and the feds have conjured up extensive road and trail closing rules that will SEVERELY restrict our access to large swaths of the Vulture/San Domingo goldfields...They've created three "management" scenarios, none of which, IMO, is acceptable... Here's the link to info ... Bummed, Unc

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm telling you. The more stuff like this happens, the more I think my philosophy on this whole "closure" garbage, in all states, has an ulterior motive. I have noticed that out here in California, Southern California especially, that the vast majority of land closures for all kinds of bogus BS reasons, occur in or around gold bearing regions. We just had over 14,000 acres of land closed in the Coolgardie area here near Barstow because of the Lane Mountain Milk Vetch; a plant that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Dept. and the Center for Biological Diversity claim ONLY grows in area of the desert surrounding Lane Mountain. The problem is that I have seen the exact same plant 75 miles away in another part of the Mojave Desert that they have no intention of closing. Amazingly, the land they DID close off here is smack dab in the middle of the placer goldfields of Coolgardie. Another kicker is that Lane Mountain, the mountain they say this plant only grows at, is at least 4 miles away from the majority of the land they closed. AND...the winds out there ALWAYS blow from the west to the east, and the goldfields are west of the mountain. So IF the plant was being repopulated because of wind blowing the seeds around, then only the areas at the base of the mountain and east of there would be affected!

Another area is the Mojave National Preserve. There were numerous gold, silver, and copper mines in the Mojave Desert in that area, so the government comes in and closes the area to prospecting. Why? I can see them not wanting to have a bunch of huge holes in the ground out there from large-scale mining operations, but why close it to metal detecting as well? I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure that Jane and John Doe driving down the paved road a mile and a half away from where I am detecting can't see the hole that I just back-filled. I think what is happening is that the government is seeing the potential future value of the minerals on those lands and is keeping us out so when the price of gold, silver, or any of the other minerals present in these areas reaches an unimaginably high price, they can swoop right in and start mining it for themselves. We will ask why they are mining in an area that is closed to mining, and we will be told it is being done for the good of the economy and they have the authority to extract said minerals if they feel the "need" is there.

I have completely started to ignore the so-called "laws" being laid down by "the man". I have been a working, tax paying, citizen of this country my whole life and I am sick and tired of having every right promised to me by the Constitution stripped from me while I sleep. If you catch me in a closed area....write me a ticket! I'll pay it, and be back out there again next week. If you catch me metal detecting in a State Park or National Monument....arrest me and take me to jail. It's not murder! You can't hold me forever! Then I'll get out and be back there again. It's time for people to START standing up and making a difference instead of just talking about how they SHOULD. I can't do it alone, but I dang sure have no problem trying.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Chris, makes you wonder why all these closures, no dredging in California ect. Does the government foresee a future with higher metal prices, and more unemployment, which drive people to prospecting like the 1930's ???? Remember- Its only illegal if you get caught... :baaasmiley:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Chris, makes you wonder why all these closures, no dredging in California ect. Does the government foresee a future with higher metal prices, and more unemployment, which drive people to prospecting like the 1930's ???? Remember- Its only illegal if you get caught... :baaasmiley:

I agree with Chris and Dave, there seems to be an ulterior motive to all of these bullsh!t closures. At this rate, we'll be excluded from most public lands within a few years. The various federal agencies that are doing this are reflecting the policies of the idiots that are being elected to office. Vote all incumbents out, and start seeking out candidates who aren't affiliated with either established party.

Rick

Link to post
Share on other sites

But Ron , You will be able to do all these things once they start "managing" the area :hahaha:

Oh! ...Wait a minute....We can already do all these things right now as it is :*&$*(:

Area Uses:

OHV driving / riding

Hiking / Horseback Riding

Access to private / state land

Camping / day use

Wildlife viewing / birding / siteseeing

Mining / Ranching

Hunting

Energy transmission

Special recreation permits

Rock hounding, geocaching, paintball

I am hoping they dont have the money to "manage" the people (not the land), and this whole ludacris plan will go away ....Did anyone see how they are wording the plans here http://www.maricopa.gov/parks/vulturemtn.aspx Appealing to the greenies, and to the people that are not even aware that this area exhists :*&$*(:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think taking these areas out of the realm of prospecting is to establish areas of collateral for borrowed money!

Link to post
Share on other sites

El D ... The government doesn't need collatoral to borrow money and won't unless the whole dollar system fails in a manner similar to Greece. All the government has to do is push the on button on the printing press ... more money but at lower value than before turning on the press!

As for the rest of the posters ... I'm not sure you are really serious about mining (any method) in closed areas. I'm not saying I would be above doing it but I will say I would not post my actual participation in it on a public forum. 'UNCLE' is watching the forums I am sure! Oh ... You really meant to say that you were prospecting up to the border of the closed area! :) Now I understand! :) :)

Be careful out there and keep an eye on your backside! :ph34r2:

Mike F

Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the rest of the posters ... I'm not sure you are really serious about mining (any method) in closed areas. I'm not saying I would be above doing it but I will say I would not post my actual participation in it on a public forum. 'UNCLE' is watching the forums I am sure! Oh ... You really meant to say that you were prospecting up to the border of the closed area! :) Now I understand! :) :)

Be careful out there and keep an eye on your backside! :ph34r2:

Mike F

Actually Mike, I meant exactly what I posted. I DO prospect in closed areas and I will continue to do so as long as my prospecting doesn't negatively affect the habitat of that area. I could care less about some tiny little perennial plant most people have never heard of, let alone ever seen, being wiped out in a 300 square foot radius when there are millions of the same plant covering hundreds of square miles of this desert. If I am 15 miles out into the middle of the desert in an area that will not be populated in any way for the next 50 years, or longer, then my little 12" diameter hole that I dug, THEN BACKFILLED, is not going to hurt anything.

If it upsets some, I apologize, but I am not going to change my mindset, or sugar coat my words to appease the very people (the government, or "Uncle" as you call them) who are taking my rights and privileges away from me without so much as a second thought. It is painfully obvious that all the letters, emails, phone calls, personal appearances at meetings, etc. do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to change the progression of the governments complete takeover of the people. Especially here in California!!! We spoke out against gay marriage, that will likely be overturned! We spoke out against the dredging ban, looks like that is gone, too! We spoke out against closing world renowned OHV areas, they're going to be gone by the end of summer...and some are already closed!

It is the same scenario as a parent who "threatens" to punish their child for bad behavior, and then never follows through with it. Eventually the kid realizes it's all just talk and he/she can do as they please. The American people TALK about taking back our rights but how many are actually doing anything about it. Sure the PLP is putting on a good show (and I don't mean that they are just pretending to fight for our rights, either), but regardless of how much they fight, things get changed anyway. The reality is that the government is going to do what they want, when they want, and how they want, and our "VOICES" are not going to change that.

It doesn't matter who is in office either, so all the talk of voting out incumbents is just talking a good game. EVERY politician, regardless of their affiliation, is a crook and will at some point turn on the people for the right price. And IF we get lucky enough to find one that isn't a crook, since there is always a process, someone along the line is going to put a stop to any politician who is actually fighting for the good of the people. I prefer to act instead of just talk about what SHOULD be done. Not everyone out there will agree with my ways, but I am who I am and I change that for NOBODY!!!!

Cheers. :thumbsupanim

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris ... You're a dangerous man. You're a danger to yourself though you are willing to accept the consequences evidently. More importantly to me and other hobby prospectors is that you are putting this hobby more at risk by mining in closed areas. It is guys like you and the guys who don't fill their holes that will be the final straw that breaks our ability to legally pursue metal detecting. Sorry to be blunt but that is how I see it.

Mike F

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people are finally trying to get our rights back but it is a slow process.

As for California? People keep electing the same people over and over who keep taking our rights away to use the land. Only thing you can hope for is eventually there to old to stay in office and many are getting up there in age. When this factor takes them out of office perhaps things will change.

As for Chris I hear the frustration man. It sucks and i kind of agree with you. They take dredging away for 5 years at least here in Cali the next phase will be highbanking, then sluicing, then panning and of course metal detecting. Not to mention atvs,motorcycles, hunting. Ya its around the corner I think and then maybe those people will get involved as a big group and stop this nonsense.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ron, Isn't it interesting that the one of the only uses of that land that is a statutory right(mining) is the only one not mentioned in the management plan. I'm growing closer and closer each day to pushing back in the form of exercising my right under the law in open defiance of the "rules" in order to have my day in court. I don't think anything is going to change until we all start pushing back. later...Jim P.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris ... You're a dangerous man. You're a danger to yourself though you are willing to accept the consequences evidently. More importantly to me and other hobby prospectors is that you are putting this hobby more at risk by mining in closed areas. It is guys like you and the guys who don't fill their holes that will be the final straw that breaks our ability to legally pursue metal detecting. Sorry to be blunt but that is how I see it.

Mike F

Mike, you have a lot of nerve to try to put blame on me for something that has been happening for years BEFORE I even started prospecting. You see me in that way, and I see you as one of those who want to cry about losing your right to prospect anywhere and not be willing to stand up and do something about it. Sorry to be blunt but that's how I see it!!!! We can agree to disagree. Enough said.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you expect the tree hugging Kalifornians are moving here in droves. :hahaha:

Looks like the county is trying to find ways make money in charging fees. . . .Park fees, HOV fees, State Land Permits, tickets & fines......ect, ect, ect.

As for China & other nations that hold our debt, if the dollar goes south, they'll go the the world court & the court will award big chunks of land and mineral rights from the USA in composation for the money owed. And the criminals who caused this will skate free. :zip-lip:

wonderer

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris ... you don't know me at all if you say I have basically no backbone to stand on my own for what I believe. Here in NH I have fought for gun rights, hunting privileges and salt water fishing privileges without a license as it has been done for hundreds of years. Unfortunately we lost the salt water fishing privileges without a license issue ... we got a small win here in NH by minimizing the cost of the license and getting reciperical fishing privileges with MA and part of southern ME so I don't have to have 3 licenses to kayak fish for stripers. I am not blaming you exclusively, as you seem to imply. for causing problems but you certainly are part of the problem and I think you know it but have decided to move against the grain. If I could hear that you were using your actions in a positive way ... open and notorious ... as a formal protest to the rules I would have more respect for your position. Doesn't mean I disrespect you just your methods. My guess is there is a large difference in our ages as well and therefore we come from a difference base or course of action. We certainly can agree to disagree and we do ... that is obvious ... you have a good day now ... go find some gold and don't forget to fill those holes! :)

Mike F

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike and others,

Chris feels he is standing up for his rights against what many are seeing as a fast approaching totalitarian government. BUT.. he is not mining in closed areas he is only using a small tool we all use and is apparently causing no harm other than breaking a rather stupid regulation. I feel that sometimes we as citizens need to stand up for our rights by playing with a bit of civil disobedience.... as long as he is willing to accept the consequences of his action, then so be it! I feel the government is no longer for the people.

Near an area where I frequently detect, we have a "State wildlife protection area"(Spenceville) that has a shooting range, an archery course, cattle is allowed range there fouling the small creeks and doing irreparable damage when the ground is muddy. There is even hunting allowed. But, they will not let detectorist ply their trade because of damage we may cause. At least that is what they say. I think they just do not want to allow us to harvest the abundant gold on the property by threatening us with jail time, fines and confiscation of equipment. I personally do not detect in this area but really want to and after reading Chris' statements I feel a bit inspired to do so..... Mind you I would never prospect private property or a claim without permission but this is our public land and it is designated as multi use recreational area. This type of regulation is extremely discriminatory against a minority of detectorists . They are closing more and more roads to keep us out and finding a dumb bug that needs protection as an excuse.

There is also a (temporary?)ban on dredging in California, The once Golden State. But there are many that have Chris' attitude and are still dredging just to supplement their income. To my knowledge not one of them has had an issue with the DFG. Of course they are not dredging in places where it is openly visible to the public, but they are in their mind standing up for their right to mine the claims they own.

Bad laws that make criminals out of honest people only create dissent and even and underground economy. Just look at what prohibition did. Just mytwocents[1].gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with all of you! :rasberry: In Arizona, we have "State Trust" land, that is absolutely off-limits to almost EVERYTHING! If you get caught prospecting on it, you lose your equipment, vehicle, and maybe your right to be free for a few days till bail is posted. :*&$*(: As a result, there have been "moonlight" nugget shooters in full camo with heat shield blankets over their off-road bike for many, many years. BUT THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT OPENLY ON THE INTERNET..

I agree with Mike that we have to be UBER-careful on how we choose to fight the green meanies, and in the steps we take to secure future rights - not just for gold prospecting, but for Metal Detecting in general. Cities and States are demanding more and more money from us, for the "privlige" of digging on our own land. :stupidrb: Let's not give them free ammunition. Personally, I have always preferred the "L-shaped" ambush... :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike and others,

Chris feels he is standing up for his rights against what many are seeing as a fast approaching totalitarian government. BUT.. he is not mining in closed areas he is only using a small tool we all use and is apparently causing no harm other than breaking a rather stupid regulation. I feel that sometimes we as citizens need to stand up for our rights by playing with a bit of civil disobedience.... as long as he is willing to accept the consequences of his action, then so be it! I feel the government is no longer for the people.

Near an area where I frequently detect, we have a "State wildlife protection area"(Spenceville) that has a shooting range, an archery course, cattle is allowed range there fouling the small creeks and doing irreparable damage when the ground is muddy. There is even hunting allowed. But, they will not let detectorist ply their trade because of damage we may cause. At least that is what they say. I think they just do not want to allow us to harvest the abundant gold on the property by threatening us with jail time, fines and confiscation of equipment. I personally do not detect in this area but really want to and after reading Chris' statements I feel a bit inspired to do so..... Mind you I would never prospect private property or a claim without permission but this is our public land and it is designated as multi use recreational area. This type of regulation is extremely discriminatory against a minority of detectorists . They are closing more and more roads to keep us out and finding a dumb bug that needs protection as an excuse.

There is also a (temporary?)ban on dredging in California, The once Golden State. But there are many that have Chris' attitude and are still dredging just to supplement their income. To my knowledge not one of them has had an issue with the DFG. Of course they are not dredging in places where it is openly visible to the public, but they are in their mind standing up for their right to mine the claims they own.

Bad laws that make criminals out of honest people only create dissent and even and underground economy. Just look at what prohibition did. Just mytwocents[1].gif

El D....thank you for understanding my point of view. I do not disobey the law simply because I want to be a "bad boy" so to speak. I do it because as long as nobody fights back they are going to continue to walk all over us. I am an all around outdoors-man and I love nature, the habitat, and what it has to offer. That being said, if I, and others, don't start doing something about all this, we will no longer be able to enjoy these gifts of God and nature. Happy Hunting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would honestly be okay with paying a fee to prospect, metal detect, etc. I deer hunt every year and I pay a fee to do so (license, tags, etc.)! Here in Kalifornia we are REQUIRED to pay $30 for a little hanging placard that gives us the right to PARK OUR CAR on Forest Service Land (called the Forest Adventure Pass). I pay that every year without hesitation. My problem is when they just flat take the rights away completely and say; "You can't do that...PERIOD!!!".

As for being open and notorious, of course I am not going to pay to place an ad on national television, but I do not go out under the cover of darkness, I do not park my vehicle a mile away and sneak into these places. I go out openly and do what my Constitution says I can......PURSUE HAPPINESS!!!!!

To Mike, okay maybe I was a bit hasty saying you don't fight for your rights. My original point was that when the words, the meetings, the letters, the phone calls, the emails, don't work....then we as the public need not roll over and accept it. Wars are won by fighting fire with fire. Not by asking the fire nicely to please stop burning!!! Hope you find a nugget so big you need a flatbed to haul it!!!! :thumbsupanim

By the way, just cuz I'm curious. I just turned 40 on the 14th of last month. Cheers!

Link to post
Share on other sites

...My original point was that when the words, the meetings, the letters, the phone calls, the emails, don't work....then we as the public need not roll over and accept it. Wars are won by fighting fire with fire. Not by asking the fire nicely to please stop burning!...

See, we are not at "war," Chris. Even if we were, with our numbers we would be nothing more than a rogue band of insurgents. Get yourself thrown in jail and see if PLP comes to get you out. This is a POLITICAL fight. You win those fights by harnessing public opinion and support. When your message isn't being heard, you either need a new message - or a new messenger.. Any soldier will tell you that all the firepower in the world won't help you if the people are not behind you. :twocents:

Link to post
Share on other sites

See, we are not at "war," Chris. Even if we were, with our numbers we would be nothing more than a rogue band of insurgents. Get yourself thrown in jail and see if PLP comes to get you out. This is a POLITICAL fight. You win those fights by harnessing public opinion and support. When your message isn't being heard, you either need a new message - or a new messenger.. Any soldier will tell you that all the firepower in the world won't help you if the people are not behind you. :twocents:

Terry, it makes no difference to me if ALL the people are behind me, because clearly some are and some aren't. But I respectfully disagree with the fact that you feel we are not at war with our government. Even IF we aren't, we SHOULD be. It is clearly obvious that our message has gotten through. But it is even MORE obvious that their response is "WE DON"T CARE WHAT YOU THINK!". As for the PLP, I have no intention on relying on them for anything. They have had some success in the past, but clearly the government has got hip to that game as well. They were one of the, if not the biggest, opponent of the dredging ban. Where did that get us? If I get caught and arrested, I will do my time with a smile on my face and not ask anyone to come to my aid. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. twocents[1].gif

Cheers!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris ... I do hear you ... and I did and do understand your reasons for your methods. They just don't happen to be what I would prefer to do ... that makes us all humans and Americans because we can agree to disagree. Once I get settled in AZ in a couple weeks ... I'm moving there permanently on the 19th and should arrive by the 24th ... I will be active in the fight to keep rights and privileges from disappearing in AZ ... That is a promise. You and I are on the same side ... we just have different methods. Here's the peace pipe ... I am passing it to you ... enjoy a toke or two on it :thumbsupanim ... and just for the record I turned 62 :olddude: this past February 2nd. You are a mere 6 years older than my oldest son Jay.

Ready for that cold beer now!?

Mike F

Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't signed in here in a long time but logged in to make sure you all knew about this. PLEASE write in letters telling them why you need access to areas. I see a LOT of closures in all 3 of these plans, and you all need to write them letters telling them how much you need access to areas for mining. Explain the history of mining to the State, and how important it is not only to current economics but to your hobbies and recreation. We have a RIGHT to recreate on public land that the BLM manages and they need to understand why YOU recreate on these lands. Explain to the how the very computer you are using couldn't be possible without precious metals MINED from the earth. Hopefully with enough letters they will make some changes. If any of you "wheel" IE drive a Jeep/4x4, or dirt bike, or quad, please include that. Also include any horse riding or hiking you do.

Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Near an area where I frequently detect, we have a "State wildlife protection area"(Spenceville) that has a shooting range, an archery course, cattle is allowed range there fouling the small creeks and doing irreparable damage when the ground is muddy. There is even hunting allowed. But, they will not let detectorist ply their trade because of damage we may cause

Really?

I frequent that shooting range you talk about Eldorado and everytime I drive in there i see the old little tailings piles near the creek and think that one day i will detect there. Humm... never thought in a million years you could n ot detect down there and i was also hoping that i was the only one thinking about it too!!!! :rolleyes:

Jerry

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...