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Fsbirdhouse

Is there a cheaper suction dredge?

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That can handle this kind of capacity?

How would you change how this guy does what he's doing?

Think I'd run the material thru a Le Trap at the end of hose.

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I understnd what he's tryin' to do, but I think he should keep water flow through the hose while he works the heavies out of the inner riffles. Otherwise wet Gold flakes will stick to the inside of the hose.

:twocents:

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That can handle this kind of capacity?

How would you change how this guy does what he's doing?

Think I'd run the material thru a Le Trap at the end of hose.

I've seen a guy do something very similiar. Difference was he use a small pump to give some ummp to the suction. Which is the big draw back to the idea---you need to get to bedrock and it is time consuming with gravity only. And clean up of 100ft of that stuff is more of a workout than I care for.

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And clean up of 100ft of that stuff is more of a workout than I care for.

Ya, I agree. I'd rather just use a smooth bore hose and run it into a sluice.

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Ya, I agree. I'd rather just use a smooth bore hose and run it into a sluice.

Yeah Steel Pan, Exactly what I was thinking.

Even if I had to pay a little more for it, I'd want a clear hose as well.

But the suction didn't look too bad in the video.

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Yeah Steel Pan, Exactly what I was thinking.

Even if I had to pay a little more for it, I'd want a clear hose as well.

But the suction didn't look too bad in the video.

Yep, suction looked pretty good. It really doesn't take a whole heck of a lot of drop to get a simple gravity dredge to work.

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Here's a couple of suction dredging tricks I figured out last year. :brows:

If you are working at the top of the line, you want the line to increase in diameter at the bottom few ft. Causes greater vacuum.

If you are working at the bottom, increase the size of the first several feet at the top to keep from the chance of the line cavitating.

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Here's a couple of suction dredging tricks I figured out last year. :brows:

If you are working at the top of the line, you want the line to increase in diameter at the bottom few ft. Causes greater vacuum.

If you are working at the bottom, increase the size of the first several feet at the top to keep from the chance of the line cavitating.

Maybe if that rig was smaller diameter smooth pipe with the last ten feet or so larger diameter ribbed pipe that empties into a sluice. Clean up would not be such a bear---smooth pipe would in theory produce more or a vacuum.

...sometimes I don't mind my line cavitating.

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Maybe if that rig was smaller diameter smooth pipe with the last ten feet or so larger diameter ribbed pipe that empties into a sluice. Clean up would not be such a bear---smooth pipe would in theory produce more or a vacuum.

...sometimes I don't mind my line cavitating.

Would you be in violation of the dredging ban if a sluice was in the river below (2 ft) the discharge end of a section of stationary pipe,that would be feeding out onto a grizzly but not connected in any way?

The last fifteen of your smooth line slid inside of the larger stationary (ribbed?) pipe that would allow the line you are working to move forward and back again as you work gravels up stream?

8" or 10" line inside of 15ft. of 14" short ribbed pipe? Whether it empties onto a sluice or not.

8" or 10" line!

Wow! I bet the Greenies would be running around waving their arms and stamping their little feet until the whole bunch 'popped' into a puff of smoke and drifted away!

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If you are using "Suction" in your dredging, you are in violation. :shhhhh:

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If you are using "Suction" in your dredging, you are in violation. :shhhhh:

Steel Pan,

AU Seeker posted this in an earlier thread on gravity dredging.

"Ron,

Using the venturi as part of a gravity dredge would violate the ban, as the venturi is part of the description of a suction dredge by the Ca. DF&G in SB670, if you use just a hose and use siphoning as the suction you maybe able to sidestep the ban."

Quote; "for purposes of this Initial Study and the SEIR, key constitituent parts of a suction dredge include the following: (1) A vacuum hose operating through the Venturi effect which removes sediment from the bottom of the stream; (2) A motor-driven pump; and (3) A sluice box."

Skip

I think the use of "A vacuum hose operating through the venturi effect" is the key here.

Gravity dredging with a hose is exempt by definition, but I wonder about the sluice box?

If completely stand alone, and unattached to the hose, would it still qualify as part of the 'system' of a suction dredge?

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Well I would like to try making a gravity dredge but i dont know if they work all that well as compared to a motor and pump. I understand using the pipe but tying it into a sluice seems like a problem as far as moving it around the water and stuff. i talked to a guy recently who made one and it works pretty well so he says.

It would be quieter :rolleyes:

Ok that gravity dredge is different then the configuration the guy told me about. Somehow this guy has it flowing into a sluice of somekind. 100 foot of pipe does seem like a lot!

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You'd probably get away with it for the first few times before the enviros would pitch a fit and the gubment weanies changed the rules. But then again being quite like a mouse it might take longer for the greenie weanies glaum on to it. Course here in Oregon with set times to "dredge" I doubt that it would matter how it was powered, if you're outside the alotted time frame you're gona get a tickey.

Gramps

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http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/sen/sb_0651-0700/sb_670_bill_20090626_amended_asm_v97.html

"Notwithstanding Section 5653, the use of any vacuum or suction

dredge equipment in any river, stream, or lake of this state is

prohibited until the director certifies to the Secretary of State

that all of the following have occurred:"

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At this particuliar time in our sic sic sic history I cannot and willnot post comments on this particuliar kind of mining. The opposition has posted MANY posts from this forum and this subject is pretty much closed till the dust clears and the :nono::nono::nono: bs EIR published after which time info will flow-sorry :eee: John

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At this particuliar time in our sic sic sic history I cannot and willnot post comments on this particuliar kind of mining. The opposition has posted MANY posts from this forum and this subject is pretty much closed till the dust clears and the :nono::nono::nono: bs EIR published after which time info will flow-sorry :eee: John

Yes indeed a forum is a great tool..... For all sides. Forums are monitored by BLM as well as those OTHER groups and this has always been so. Well thought words can be of value to both or perhaps even educational, but the misspoken or angry outbursts can be twisted to fit ones agenda.... <_<

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Yes indeed a forum is a great tool..... For all sides. Forums are monitored by BLM as well as those OTHER groups and this has always been so. Well thought words can be of value to both or perhaps even educational, but the misspoken or angry outbursts can be twisted to fit ones agenda.... <_<

If it isn't legal, then it shouldn't be done. We don't want to be, or appear to be willing participents in activities that can be interpreted as unmindful of our impact on the environment.

Having said that, I am not above poking a little fun at the Greenies, or their incessant attacks against legitimate and proven methods of mining that have already been studied to death, nor should we be fearful of discussing new methods of operations that fall within the already stringent rules we have to follow.

Perhaps the other side of this equation should consider where their efforts will leave us when the nation's economy collapses, and the US dollar will no longer purchase the raw materials (much less the finished products) that we can't make in this country today, thanks in part, to the anti mining agenda of radical environmentalists. Our economy, and our security lie therein.

"Our" means all of us.

Best to be reasonable now, before the inevitable backlash comes, and all is lost in a panicked attempt to catch up!

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http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/sen/sb_0651-0700/sb_670_bill_20090626_amended_asm_v97.html

"Notwithstanding Section 5653, the use of any vacuum or suction

dredge equipment in any river, stream, or lake of this state is

prohibited until the director certifies to the Secretary of State

that all of the following have occurred:"

By the strictest interptetaion of the above, gas vacs would be prohibited....but they aren't.

So....does it fall back to the venturi definition?

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I think this maybe the info to clear this all up.

"The following, in turn, is an incomplete list of activities that are not considered suction

dredging for purposes of the Proposed Program, as they are not subject to the Department’s

permitting authority under Fish and Game Code section 5653, subdivision (B). However,

other permits or authorizations from the Department may be required, including in some

instances a Lake or Streambed Alteration Agreement pursuant to Fish and Game Code

section 1600 et seq. (See also Cal. Code Regs., tit. 14, § 228, subd. (f).)

• Use of non‐motorized (e.g., hand‐powered) suction dredging equipment;

• High‐banking outside of the existing water line;

• Sluicing or panning for gold;

• Use of a suction dredge with its intake pipe removed but still using a pump to move

water through the sluice box;

• Power sluicing for gold; and

• Use a suction dredge (e.g., cutterhead dredge) for the purposes of infrastructure

maintenance, flood control, or navigational purposes.

There may be other methods of placer mining not captured by the above list"

This and the partial quote already posted in from this document put out by the CDFG, look on page 5 for the info posted in this thread so far.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/suctiondredge/docs/SuctionDredge-IS-NOP-20091025.pdf

Skip

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I think this maybe the info to clear this all up.

"The  following,  in  turn,  is  an  incomplete  list  of  activities  that  are  not  considered  suction 

dredging for purposes of the Proposed Program, as they are not subject to the Department’s 

permitting  authority  under  Fish  and  Game  Code  section  5653,  subdivision  (B).    However, 

other  permits  or  authorizations  from  the  Department  may  be  required,  including  in  some 

instances  a  Lake  or  Streambed  Alteration  Agreement  pursuant  to  Fish  and  Game  Code 

section 1600 et seq.  (See also Cal. Code Regs., tit. 14, § 228, subd. (f).) 

• Use of non‐motorized (e.g., hand‐powered) suction dredging equipment; 

• High‐banking outside of the existing water line; 

• Sluicing or panning for gold; 

• Use of a suction dredge with its intake pipe removed but still using a pump to move 

water through the sluice box;  

• Power sluicing for gold; and 

• Use  a  suction  dredge  (e.g.,  cutterhead  dredge)  for  the  purposes  of  infrastructure 

maintenance, flood control, or navigational purposes. 

There may be other methods of placer mining not captured by the above list"

This and the partial quote already posted in from this document put out by the CDFG, look on page 5 for the info posted in this thread so far.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/suctiondredge/docs/SuctionDredge-IS-NOP-20091025.pdf

Skip

Does gravity dredging (no venturi) fall into this?

*Use of non‐motorized (e.g., hand‐powered) suction dredging equipment;

This seems to cover the gas vac question

*High‐banking outside of the existing water line;

Yes/No ?

But as the old heads (Experienced) here have said, it's probably best to not push the envelop in the field, especially when the jury is still in deliberation , and dredging by sanctioned means may be forthcoming soon.

After that, if it isn't banned, it isn't banned!

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Thanks Skip,

For the link.

After having read it, there is no doubt that "ALL" human activity off-pavement should banned.

But of course the intended bias is strictly limited to suction dredgers.

Got a chuckle in the section about esthetics.

The passing motorist, hiker, rafter, fisherman might be offended by our presence in 'their' forest.

It is to be presumed that the aforementioned do not disturb wildlife in their passing, except those killed by motorists, those scared out of their natural activities deep in the forest by hikers, those going home in a creel of a fisherman.

The rafters really are innocent, as long as they keep their mouths shut, and their poop in the raft with 'em, they may pass unnoticed.

But ya know, I've been a motorist, I've hiked over some pretty awesome mountain ranges, did a little tubing and rafting, and killed at least my share of trout and salmon, and never was bothered much by other folks going about their business in the woods, unless they were throwing rocks at my dry flies.

What kind of selfish generation has grown up behind me?

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:*&$*(: AIN'T DONE NOTHING ILLEGAL-JUST NOT FEEDING THE OPPOSITION INFO AND CLOSING LOOPHOLES AND FULLTIME 32 YEARS AND P/T 20 AND NEVER A SINGLE TICKET FROM NO AGENCY NEVER NO HOW NO SHOW SO TAKE IT TO WHERE THE THE DOOR HITS YA AND GOD SPLIT YA- :arrowheadsmiley:

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:*&$*(: AIN'T DONE NOTHING ILLEGAL-JUST NOT FEEDING THE OPPOSITION INFO AND CLOSING LOOPHOLES AND FULLTIME 32 YEARS AND P/T 20 AND NEVER A SINGLE TICKET FROM NO AGENCY NEVER NO HOW NO SHOW SO TAKE IT TO WHERE THE THE DOOR HITS YA AND GOD SPLIT YA- :arrowheadsmiley:

Holy cow! Was that meant for me?

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Thanks Skip,

For the link.

After having read it, there is no doubt that "ALL" human activity off-pavement should banned.

But of course the intended bias is strictly limited to suction dredgers.

Got a chuckle in the section about esthetics.

The passing motorist, hiker, rafter, fisherman might be offended by our presence in 'their' forest.

It is to be presumed that the aforementioned do not disturb wildlife in their passing, except those killed by motorists, those scared out of their natural activities deep in the forest by hikers, those going home in a creel of a fisherman.

The rafters really are innocent, as long as they keep their mouths shut, and their poop in the raft with 'em, they may pass unnoticed.

But ya know, I've been a motorist, I've hiked over some pretty awesome mountain ranges, did a little tubing and rafting, and killed at least my share of trout and salmon, and never was bothered much by other folks going about their business in the woods, unless they were throwing rocks at my dry flies.

What kind of selfish generation has grown up behind me?

Orwell was right---just a few years off. How sad is it that we have to worry about trolls watching us when 99% of prospectors are more law abiding and envri-friendly than those kooks.

They haven't got around to banning dredges in the southeast---frustrating part is that hunters are the ones lining up behind the movement. Living abroad has taught me one thing. The rest of the world doesn't spend it's time binding their own hands.

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Consider this:

My buddy runs ribbed 4" or 6" hose thru a dam, and often times does not even set up a sluice! At the end of a run, he lifts the hose out and washes the dirt into a bucket and pans it out. Most all the gold will get trapped in the hose...so no sluice needed!

Now you can call it whatever you want, but he calls it a "push sluice", being as the water is pushing thru the hose, hehehehe!

When you run into a "stepping stone" creek, meaning little ponds with water falls, one after another, that is perfect to set up your hose, and take advantage of the verticle drop, and work you way downstream, one pond after another. Just test out what you may or may not be losing out the bottom end of the hose, to determine if you need to have a box set up or not. You may need to anchor the hose thru boulder dams, and cover the boulders with visqueen, to get the pond to fill up higher. And remove all rocks that are too big to suck thru the hose, and expose the bedrock of the pond of course.

Over the years he has done real well with this, and never draws heat from anyone....real quiet operation. And take the dam down afterwards and leave things natural looking.

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