Micro Nugget Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I've been trying to obtain info re the line of Minelab PI Super Goldsearch coils. It seems that over the years Minelab has distributed an assortment of coils, e.g., the Commander series. Some are black with black skid plates, some black with white skid plates and some are completely cream colored. Even the names differ. The labels vary bearing names such as GP Extreme, MPS Technology, GP Series or Super Goldsearch. Some are labeled "Made in Australia" while others are silent as to origin. The Kellyco web site insinuates that some are made in China. Some are expressly labeled "Mono" or "Double D" while others render no clue and all have similar serial numbers [5 numeric digits]. Does anyone have clarifying info about the history of the Minelab labeling system? How do the Super Goldsearch Mono coils compare with the Commander coils or with each other? I have an 11" Super Goldsearch Mono coil that is made in Australia. Does it have the Litz wire as in the Commander Coils? Is there a performance difference between the two? Thanks in advance for any enlightenment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dorado Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Very good questions... I would like to know also. Maybe Kevin will happen to read this and let us know...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garimpo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 KNOCK...KNOCK...anyone home Dick Schultz? Inquiring minds here want some answers and I know you have them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Oro Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hi Nugget I'll answer your last question first. No the early SD/GP/GPX coils where made with regular stranded wire only the commander coils are made with Litz wire. Now Litz wire was developed for use with Radio transmissions to reduce loss of power. Litz construction is designed to minimize the power losses exhibited in solid conductors due to "skin effect". Skin Effect is the tendency of radio frequency current to be concentrated at the surface of the conductor. Litz constructions counteract this effect by increasing the amount of surface area without significantly increasing the size of the conductor. Generally speaking, constructions composed of many strands of finer wires are best for the higher frequency applications. I don't feel that detectors run any where near the high freq that would benefit from using Litz wire. There seems to be seat of the pants feeling that they are quieter than regular staned wire coils. I have never seen any proof of this not even on test equipment I have used to test detector/coil combos. I've never seen any measurable improvement with Litz wire coils over regular coils. I fact in some areas I think the Goldsearch coil are maybe a tad bit better on small gold. As for EMI I don't see any difference between the coils.Keeper SwingingCH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugget Shooter Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 The Litz wire has been used in the early coils as well as the Commander series, Minelab has the patent for it's use in detector coils I believe....The Commander series is an upgraded version of the old Minelab Coils...Minelab has also allowed Nugget Finder to use Litz wire in their coils... I will get more info in more detail later today for you on this if I can and I have sent an email to Ewout Kozel asking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garimpo Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Bill since the old Minelab coils and the Commander coils all use Litz wire then in what respect is the Commander coils an upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugget Shooter Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I immediately received an answer from Ewout and the request for this info in the content of the first post and those following will be answered by Minelab in Australia....Stay tuned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyLundy Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Martin,Hey you can use your Super GoldSearch Coil on your GPX 4500. It's a great coil and my old 8" Mono, has added a many a nugget to my pokes. Until our next hunt!Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paseclipse Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 It's my understanding that Litz wire is nothing but MIL spec wires. Not sure which spec it is though, if somebody knows it I can download it and post on the forum (probably starts with a MS or NASM letter designation) but it's nothing special and has just been used in our coils.Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richs Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 A simple Litz Wire search will give you plenty of reading material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvchris Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Super Search for the Super Detector, At the same time the Minelab VLF's coils were called gold search, coin search, .......... so "super" was used for the SD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C... Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong-Butttt I heard this years ago that a after market coil company was making the coils for minelab and then became their own company which is coiltek---and I also read that the older minelab PI coils are very noisy on the newer Gpx series beepers :twocents: Mike C...:ph34r2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnno Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Very interesting. I'm about to put this up for sale. Great coil, light, big ... 19 inchHere's some pics. Worked well on Kat's 18000CheersJohnno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Oro Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hi BillThat is weird about all ML coils having Litz wire. I have an old SD coil that no longer works so being an engineer I wanted to see how they made them so I cut it open and found a broken wire or two in the coil loop. It does not have Litz wire in it, at least not what is accepted in the Electrical industry as Litz wire. They may call it that but the stands in the coil is larger than what is normal for Litz wire. John Kah made all the coils for PI machines up until 1997 when ML pulled the coil production in house. That is when Coiltek was born and they never used Litz wire in any coils form what I know. I think that is why ML started making coils inhouse because John didn't want to use Litz wire. Coiltek, I don't think ever made any production coils with Litz wire. They may have done some proto types in Litz but I don't know that for sure. Here is a vidio on Litz wire it may clear up what Litz is and it's use. Keeper SwingingCH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugget Shooter Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Interesting.... Hopefully Minlab will answer my email with more info for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimi Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Aloha,Interesting posts! i also have an 18" super goldsearch coil (green> that I have considered puting up for sale to offset some upgrades I intend for my SD2200d. Does anyone know how much these coils go for in good condition. Looks like it was hardly used. Just too big for me to be lugging around franconia or gold basin.Any thoughts or offers? Pics can be provided if necessary.Aloha,Stan aka Ka'imi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paratrooper Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Aloha,Interesting posts! i also have an 18" super goldsearch coil (green> that I have considered puting up for sale to offset some upgrades I intend for my SD2200d. Does anyone know how much these coils go for in good condition. Looks like it was hardly used. Just too big for me to be lugging around franconia or gold basin.Any thoughts or offers? Pics can be provided if necessary.Aloha,Stan aka Ka'imi I saw one on E-Bay for $399 . Didn't sell . He claimed that it was a $599 or so coil but I've never seen a real price on it . I have one as well and want to use it this year . It's reputation is that it is good on normal soil so it should work good around here . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Porter Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Minelab have used Litz wire in all their coils for their PI's since the SD2000. Coiltek did make coils for Minelab way back in the piece but parted company when Minelab took coil manufacture in house. Coiltek then started to manufacture aftermarket coils for the Minelab PIs and discovered a wire that imitated Litz to a degree so started using that to avoid a possible conflict with patents and also cost. In recent years the PI detectors Minelab have made (GP series onwards and more particularly the GPX detectors) have required very specific calibrations of the coil to work properly, this is to do with the cable connecting the coil to the detector and also the actual windings themselves, hence the redesign and name change to Commander, so the current Commander coils are fully backwards compatible with all the Minelab PI machines right back to the SD2000 but do not recommend using coils from the SD era with current technology (Commander coils are better with the GPX series).Commander coils are not made in China. John Kah made me experimental Litz wound 18" DD coils back when he was doing work for Minelab (SD 2100 days (1996 1997), I seriously doubt he ever refused to make coils using Litz. Litz wire is expensive compared to other wires, Litz is very effective due to each and every wire being insulated from the other thus preventing chaffing during bumps and knocks.Hope this helps,JP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt18000 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 One other thing about there upgrades is the use of different plastic's ( lighter, more ozon protection, more crack resisdent ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garimpo Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 As usual JP you have the straight scoop...it's always a pleasure reading your "history"...thanks for sharing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Oro Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hi JPThanks you for the real story. I know you can't believe every thing you read on the net (no pun intended) it's good to here from someone that was there. Sorry for being wrong about the coils. Only excuse I can offer is I'm old CRS. :huh:Keeper swingingCH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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