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Guest Gripper

I am becomming against mining claims. Most people that own claims don't truly work them. I can attest to that as I am on more claims than I can ever work (I won't ever see you if you mine on my claims!) This is my statement: don't just claim a piece of property that is hours/days from your house because you want it or dream that gold is on it.

And don't buy a claim off the internet with some dream that it holds pounds from gold. The guy selling it has never been to the ground he is selling you. You will probably never work it. Be honest with yourself. Be honest with yourself. You might be keeping someone that lives within minutes from the land from ever touching it. This is an abuse of the mining laws in my mind. They were set up to respect those who will truly make a dilagent effort to extract valuable resources to benefit our nation. Not just for some city folks to brag about having "GOLD MINING CLAIMS" in them thar hills. If I drive by your nice claim every weekend all year and never see you there, I will............

Gripper

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Some people have claims they work for the present and save others for the future. That is the exact reason for a claim, to lock up the mineral resource for the claiment. I must ask in all fairness do you mean that you will jump someones claim just because you notice the claim is not worked? Seems like you kind of hinted that by the way you ended your rant.

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Some people have claims they work for the present and save others for the future. That is the exact reason for a claim, to lock up the mineral resource for the claiment. I must ask in all fairness do you mean that you will jump someones claim just because you notice the claim is not worked? Seems like you kind of hinted that by the way you ended your rant.

It would be nice to think that having a claim means that You occupy the claim 24/7 to work and protect your investment.

But the reality is that They do not usually allow for that. So yes most claim have no physical prescense on them a large amount of the time.

But under your concept I'll draw a parallel.

It's a shame all the good looking women are taken or married.

So I'll just take them when their husband is away ?

Problem seems to be one of you coveting what has been claimed by others.

All I can say is do research and be ready to claim a claim if the claimants are late on their fees.

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I am becomming against mining claims. Most people that own claims don't truly work them. I can attest to that as I am on more claims than I can ever work (I won't ever see you if you mine on my claims!) This is my statement: don't just claim a piece of property that is hours/days from your house because you want it or dream that gold is on it.

And don't buy a claim off the internet with some dream that it holds pounds from gold. The guy selling it has never been to the ground he is selling you. You will probably never work it. Be honest with yourself. Be honest with yourself. You might be keeping someone that lives within minutes from the land from ever touching it. This is an abuse of the mining laws in my mind. They were set up to respect those who will truly make a dilagent effort to extract valuable resources to benefit our nation. Not just for some city folks to brag about having "GOLD MINING CLAIMS" in them thar hills. If I drive by your nice claim every weekend all year and never see you there, I will............

Gripper

I am no the fence as I can see both sides of this issue.

I can appreciate your sentiment and I often wish mining claims were abolished and folks could prospect on public lands on a first come, first serve basis instead of having to deal with all the mining claims BS. One would think public land would be open for use (prospecting) by the entire public and not just those who happen to "claim" the land first. I know when I first became interested in gold prospecting it was always a PITA to make sure I was not prospecting on someones claim. Most claims seem to be empty without any claim markers when I am out prospecting, but I still do my best to avoid others claims when possible.

I am not sure if you were hinting at the idea of jumping someones claim, but if so, don't forget the fact that those who hold a current claim also had to do a lot of work to get their claims. Those folks who own that claim have put in a lot of work to stake, research, and fill out all the paperwork involved with staking a claim. Many folks spend months looking for a good place to stake their claim.

On the other hand, I kinda like the fact that I can go out to a mining claim owned or leased by a club I am a member of and not have to deal with crowds of people prospecting in the same area as I am. I also like the fact that if I do find some gold on an unclaimed piece of public land, there is a good chance that I can stake a claim and go back at my leisure to search for more without worrying about others cleaning the site out when I am unable to prospect there (at least that is how it's supposed to work).

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I am becomming against mining claims. Most people that own claims don't truly work them. I can attest to that as I am on more claims than I can ever work (I won't ever see you if you mine on my claims!) This is my statement: don't just claim a piece of property that is hours/days from your house because you want it or dream that gold is on it.

And don't buy a claim off the internet with some dream that it holds pounds from gold. The guy selling it has never been to the ground he is selling you. You will probably never work it. Be honest with yourself. Be honest with yourself. You might be keeping someone that lives within minutes from the land from ever touching it. This is an abuse of the mining laws in my mind. They were set up to respect those who will truly make a dilagent effort to extract valuable resources to benefit our nation. Not just for some city folks to brag about having "GOLD MINING CLAIMS" in them thar hills. If I drive by your nice claim every weekend all year and never see you there, I will............

Gripper

I have money in the bank that I'm not using right now. Would you like some of that?

How about your neighbor's car? He doesn't seem to be using it right now.

Don't kid yourself. A valid gold mining claim is a very real possession.

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Ya and what about all the bastages who have summer homes and only use them a few days out of the year, Greedy I say, leave the door open and first come first dibbs!

BTW Gripper can you post the location of your claims so we can rape/pillage them?

Practice what you preach!

I do see your point tho of some folks just speculating and trying to just turn a profit that's un American!

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I have a few claims and i have a hell of a time keeping people off of them ,we had a well known detectorist,Hit them just a few weeks ago and this is after i made an opology to his character, I invite you to jump my claim ,We have installed game cameras and will get the sheriff to show you down town, Then you may understand the deal.It is a federal law.

When i was younger i had the well you aint from here mentality and i used to hit claimed areas, Well if fact i had been working the place for years then some guy claimed it from out of town, So i figured he aint from here and i had been working it before him so what the hell. Well that aint no high point in my life, When we justify what we do we are wrong ,wrong, wrong, But i have seen both sides of this, It is a lot of work to file post and keep a claim. I cant work them every day but i did do the research and testing to prove it,It is frustrating to say the least when you go out and find an area claimed up, That is why you use the geo comunicator to try and see what is open, I guess when you arnt home one week .We can camp on your lawn and it will be ok,Sorry but you kind of seem a little wild and posibbly Ill informed,

There are those that claim an area just to sell.That is wrong in some ways.

Old prospectors would find an area Prove it claim it up sell it and go find another place and start all over .That is what it was all about back then.

I guess you kicked the hornets nest with this one,

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"I can appreciate your sentiment and I often wish mining claims were abolished and folks could prospect on public lands on a first come, first serve basis instead of having to deal with all the mining claims BS. One would think public land would be open for use (prospecting) by the entire public and not just those who happen to "claim" the land first."

-BobinNV-

That's how it used ta was at the begging of the Gold Rush.

About the only ground you could hold was the 3 sq. ft. you were standin' on.

Even then, somebody would try to knock ya off.

A lot of prospectors murdered for as little as a few square yds.

You have to have the claim rights protected "by law". As long as the law doesn't infringe on those rites. Without the backing and enforcement of "the law", caos and anarchy raise their ugly heads.

After all, "I was here first". :brows:

It's only fair that we all have the same chance and right, but remember the "Early Bird"!

Life's a "B", eh?

Win some, lose more. :arrowheadsmiley:

Ponder this,......

No more NASCAR!

No point in being "First". :unsure:

I'll always remember my "First"! ;)

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Guest Gripper

Bill Southern, the man, my parents tease me along the same lines. Some must speak their mind (which in this case is frustrations). Kicking the hornets nest, sorry Denny. Not really to piss people off, but to be honest with you in my thoughts, as I am bllz deep in gold prospecting for years now. Some are born into/for this, and they tend to be critical. My opinion. I love prospecting/mining/detecting as my only "hobby". But it spans this. My message is to those who are part of the new wave of "prospectors" that neither work their claims or love the adventure behind exploring new ground. Locking it up so that I feel guilty for even looking at this land. In this computer age, I realize that some are star struck by the concept of claiming. I apologize for the outburst as those in this circle are generally the real deal. See you out there (maybe).

Gripper

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Guest Gripper

There was a time in which claims were valid for only a week. This was around 1855 in the Motherlode. The Man's name was Jean Nicolas Perlot. Bigger than you or me. Yeah, before any of us. The concept was simple; if you were going to use it, do so. A quote from his book Goldseeker page 255; "They had properly claimed it and had posted their notices, but they had omitted renewing them every week as the law required."

Somehow this struck a chord in my mind. This concept has been lost in the last hundred years or so. Sorry but it makes me sick to see no one on their claims that surround me, ever. For years. See, I'm the local hillbilly that is out there every weekend on the back roads surveying the ground for miles around. Every weekend I pass more claims than I can count, and have NOT ONCE seen anybody out there. The only place I have seen anyone mining is a little piece of private ground that the local mining shop runs for tourists. And the guy running it told me that they salt their pans! Those with silly replies like "can I have the money that you are not using" are ridiculous. Are we talking about the use of United States Land? If you are claiming United States land, it is all of our land so be wise with your investment. If your think that you will truly utilize the land than do so, that's what it is for my fellow American. Really. So much of modern claiming is a joke. I speak for my local area in Californias southern Motherlode. Too much paperwork claiming. Unused. Wasted. Period. If you have a claim and any respect for yourself, work it dilligently or GIVE IT UP when you refuse to do so.

I'm employed to be a good steward of the land of the United States of America. This is the central concept of my crew. If you do not abide by this, I have no respect for you. Don't waste our nations precious land with unreal dreams of grandeur. Cheers to those that use their claims to the fullest, as they have no problem with this post.

regards,

Gripper

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Yes indeed you get both kinds of claim owners and unfortunately if they abide by the rules the claim is legally held. What is done after that fact is the problem and you can go to eBay and elsewhere to find claim after claim for sale with all kinds of wild mental images of riches to be had designed to sucker in those looking for a quick buck or something to supplement their retirement income. It is sad and I have had folks ask me to evaluate some of these type purchases "AFTER" they had already spent 5000 to 10,000 dollars. Yes there is gold on the claim in most cases, but not in paying amounts unfortunately.

Is this proper use of the right to research and claim areas?

Are the sellers doing something illegal?

Does the buyer have any avenue to regain their investment on a mineral claim they did not fully check out before purchasing?

Sad I know, but this too has been going on since the beginning and with gold prices as they are and expected to climb the fish barrel is getting fuller for these type businessmen.

You can look at claim listings on maps from every state and see hundreds of new claims filed in the last couple years in every known placer area as well as in hardrock districts.

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Gripper i do not intend to start a fight, Nothing like two saw men going at it,I understand the frustraitions you have,There are people that take advantage and abuse just about anything,I,am just tired of our rights being taken away because of the abuser,s.I think it is great that one can find a place and claim it,To secure the mineral rights,If they work it, hold it, or lease it,It is no buisness of mine, There will always be coruption in all things,I,am almost sure that if you had a spot,claimed it up,Got busy with work, and went out to the claim to see some one working it and they were saying what you are saying as there excusse,Well it does not feel good, :pukes: You are in a great area, There are open places, watch them close.One advantage to this money mess we are in is alot of people can not afford those claims and they get dropped. :idea:

There is a lot of BLM land that is open up there,It is just way off the beaten path and that is a good thing, :twocents:

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Gripper,

Even you could do some research and find a place to claim. I don't get to use my claims everyday, as much as I would like to, but I do work them. It is a real thrill owning your own mining claim and if you had one that was a good producer, you would not want to be jumped, I am sure. Have you ever thought about asking the claim owners permission to hunt the claims you are interested in? I allow some folks to hunt my claims, if they ask. Most folks are good about allowing access to privite claims, if you are nice about it and fallow the rules.

Bunk

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One thing about claims that irks me is when they are not clearly marked, i was at williams well about a dozen yrs ago doing some drywashing on some pretty flat land with no markers in site and while panning out my run, a guy rolled up on me out of nowhere and said this was his claim, when i questioned his markers he pulled his jacket back to expose his 38 tucked in his belt line and said..."the markers are there you just cant see em from here" I pulled back my duster and exposed my 357 :inocent: and told him i might have to take a second look, his dimeanor took a change for the better and he told me of a few other spots not claimed right across the road but all this hassle could be avoided if i would have seen the claim markers. That spot i was drywashing in was the best spot i've ever worked...no wonder he booted me out, i ran about ten shovels for a sample run and must have pulled out 20 big pickers.

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Wow, this topic sure stirred up a traveling crap storm! An emotional subject probably more so than a political contest. But it looks like the issue is heading to compromise. I can understand the frustration. I am less in an unsettled opinion about claims since reading and thinking about the post and the replies.

There are the people who have claims and fully intend to have the claim worked by himself or others. Some of these people might have claims for sell that they cannot work any more or simply want to profit by virtue of their efforts to stake, maintain and improve them.. There are the others that have no intention working their claims and are gobbling them up and offering to sell or have the claims for bragging rights. To these people with a few exceptions, I say kiss that place where the sun does not shine. As for idle claims consider for one, military members that are in for one or more duty tours.

Sure I would like to have a claim that gives good rewards for my work at mining. I know that finding a good claim, especially for me.

Being a novice and new comer to Arizona. I just don't have the experience or local knowledge. I'm going to have to pay the dues if I want a claim by lots of research and lots of time with boots on the ground. If I don't succeed, what the hell, there are clubs to join, open ground, and won't be shot or imprisoned for asking permission.

Bill C

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A good ol' Bud of mine, my Wife and I are in with others on a large claim.

Two of the others haven't even been out there, one has been once, one has been three times, another maybe five times, and this is in the last two years! :whaaaa: :???:

Bill and I bust our a$$, my Wife keeps us fed, and we hit the claim almost every week end. I think we only missed 3 weekends last year, May thru Oct.

We have our spot picked out and it's pretty good.

It does seem to be a waste of ground to be on such a large claim, but I really don't give a squat about the others' lack of activity. I got in this for me. I'd be happy with the area we're workin'. ;) It is nice though, to know that we have options in several dif conditions as far as the geology and available water. :)

There is always the stinkin' 2% that screw it up for the rest.

I'm talkin' 'bout the "profiteers" and "con artists".

Seems to me I remember something about "showing presents of values", "proof of work" being performed, or some such requirements. Rules not followed my most. Is this a loophole for invalidating a claim? :hmmmmm:

O.K., I added another :twocents: .

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I want to add another twist this about not seeing anyone working their claims story, I have friends here on the east coast that have claims in the California Motherlode that they acquired about 2 to 3 years ago and some of them only get to go out and work their claims in the summer time due to recent regulation/moratorium and only for a few weeks or a little more at the most, but they're have only been recreating/sampling up to this point because on these claims my friends have been going by the "regulations" as far as filing the proper paper work, i.e., POO, Plan of Reclamation, ect., to be able to really work these claims properly to get a REAL return on their money, and as anyone that has done so knows that the waiting period for getting this paper work approved will take many months if not years to be approved if at all, so it is not unrealistic to not see someone working a claim for months at a time other than sampling and even then there is paperwork involved and needing to be approved in being able to do REAL sampling, just keep this in mind when looking at some of those "unworked" legal claims.

Skip

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One thing about claims that irks me is when they are not clearly marked, i was at williams well about a dozen yrs ago doing some drywashing on some pretty flat land with no markers in site and while panning out my run, a guy rolled up on me out of nowhere and said this was his claim, when i questioned his markers he pulled his jacket back to expose his 38 tucked in his belt line and said..."the markers are there you just cant see em from here" I pulled back my duster and exposed my 357 :inocent: and told him i might have to take a second look, his dimeanor took a change for the better and he told me of a few other spots not claimed right across the road but all this hassle could be avoided if i would have seen the claim markers. That spot i was drywashing in was the best spot i've ever worked...no wonder he booted me out, i ran about ten shovels for a sample run and must have pulled out 20 big pickers.

Contrary to conventional wisdom and mining law, if a someone unless absolutely unable to do so does not mark and service the claim then that someone does not deserve to own the claim.

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One thing about claims that irks me is when they are not clearly marked, i was at williams well about a dozen yrs ago doing some drywashing on some pretty flat land with no markers in site and while panning out my run, a guy rolled up on me out of nowhere and said this was his claim, when i questioned his markers he pulled his jacket back to expose his 38 tucked in his belt line and said..."the markers are there you just cant see em from here" I pulled back my duster and exposed my 357 :inocent: and told him i might have to take a second look, his dimeanor took a change for the better and he told me of a few other spots not claimed right across the road but all this hassle could be avoided if i would have seen the claim markers. That spot i was drywashing in was the best spot i've ever worked...no wonder he booted me out, i ran about ten shovels for a sample run and must have pulled out 20 big pickers.

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Have to say that I agree. 2 years ago I was just getting back into mining since doing it as a kid. Started to go to some of the spots that we went to years ago and lo and behold there wasn't a single spot to get out and wet the pan. Didn't see a single person out that summer mining those claims either. So I figured I'd go down to BLM and file my own claim. Spent hours looking up different ones that weren't claimed according to geocommunicator only to find that they were. Finally the guy in the BLM office told me just to go and don't worry about it being claimed or not, the several that I had really wanted at first he relayed to me were owned by a man in Iowa that he had just spoken to that week on the phone. Seems he was only holding the claims to try and sell them and he'd had them for years without bothering to work um. Pisses you off to see someone have 150 claims when you can't find a single one. Realistically, who is gonna go and mine 150 claims? I'd like to see an amendment that says work um or lose um! This coming from a pissed off beginner who can't find a place to go...

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From our good friensds at the BLM office in CA Web site

Lobby to increase the "maintenance fee" or eliminate it in leu of true assessment work.

WHO MAY LOCATE A MINING CLAIM?

Any citizen of the United States, a minor who has reached the age of discretion, a corporation, and non-citizens (aliens) who have declared their intention to become a citizen. (43 CFR 3832.1)

WHERE CAN I LOCATE A MINING CLAIM?

A mining claim can be located on federal lands (BLM and Forest Service) that are open to mineral location (entry). If you have a specific location site in mind, you may verify that the lands are open to mineral entry. This can be accomplished by checking with the BLM State Office Information Access Center (Public Room), who will assist you in determining if the lands are open to mineral entry by checking master title plats, records, files and other pertinent information.

WHAT TYPES OF CLAIMS/SITES ARE THERE?

Lode - A classic vein, ledge, or other rock in place between definite walls. A lode claim is located by metes and bounds. The maximum length is 1,500 feet by 600 feet. (43 CFR 3841)

Placer - All deposits, other than lodes. These include placer deposits of sand and gravel containing free gold and other minerals. Placer claims are located by legal subdivision. An individual may locate up to 20 acres with a maximum of 160 contiguous acres with 8 or more people (an association). A corporation is consider a single locator. (43 CFR 3842)

Tunnel Site - A tunnel site is where a tunnel is run to develop a vein or lode. It may also be used for the discovery of unknown veins or lodes. To stake a tunnel site, two stakes are placed up to 3,000 feet apart on the line of the proposed tunnel. Recordation is the same as a lode claim. A Tunnel Site can be regarded more as a right-a-way, than a mining claim. (43 CFR 3843)

Mill Site - Public lands which are non-mineral in character. Mill Sites may be located in connection with a placer or lode claim for mining and milling purposes or as an independent/custom mill site that is independent of a mining claim. Mill Sites are located by metes and bounds or legal subdivision and are up to 5 acres in size. (43 CFR 3844)

WHAT IS A LOCATION NOTICE AND WHERE MAY I GET THE FORM?

A location notice is a form that must be filed with the BLM, California State Office and your local County Recording Office. The following information must be included on the form; date of location of the claim/site, description of discovery monument, name of claim/site, legal description (metes and bounds or legal subdivision), and the names and addresses of all locators. There are separate notices for placers, lodes, and mill sites. You can obtain location notice forms from the BLM Public Room and stationary stores. (43 CFR 3833.1-2)

HOW DO I RECORD A MINING CLAIM?

You must file your mining claim/site location notice with the BLM, California State Office, within 90 days from the date of location of the claim or site and you must also file with the County Recording Office.

All new locations must be accompanied by the required fees of a $15 service charge, $34 location fee, and a $140 maintenance payment fee for the first year of location, for a total of $189 per claim or site, after September 1, 2009. Since we are now in 2010, the fee is $189 per claim until further notified. Claims will expire September 1st, if you do not do your annual filings. Next paragraph describes your annual filing.

By September 1st of every year or before, $140 maintenance payment fee must be paid to the Sacramento office, or a Waiver with an assessment form and a $10 per claim assessment fee must be turned into the Sacramento office. (43 CFR 3833.1-2 and 43 CFR 3833.1-4) Sacramento's address is 2800 Cottage Way, Suite W-1623, Sacramento, CA 95825.

MAY I CHANGE A LOCATION NOTICE AFTER I HAVE FILED WITH THE BLM?

You may file an amended location notice in order to change the name of the claim/site, clarify the legal description, or provide information that was incomplete. Also, you must file these amendments first with the county that the claim is in. After you receive the county stamp on the amended location notice, then file your amendment with the Bureau of Land Management State Office at 2800 Cottage Way, Suite W-1623, Sacramento, CA 95825. You may not add or delete locators or change the location date of the claim/site. There is a $10 filing fee for filing an amended location notice. (43 CFR 3833.0-5[p])

WHAT MUST I DO TO MAINTAIN A CLAIM?

Once a claim/site is serialized, an annual filing must be made on or before September 1, of each year to maintain the claim/site. If you have more than 10 claims, you must pay the $140 maintenance fee. If you have 10 or fewer claims/sites, you may choose to file either the maintenance fee payment or file the Maintenance Fee Waiver certification (a.k.a. small miners waiver). If you choose to file a small miners waiver, then you must also perform $100 worth of labor or improvements on all placers or lode claims during the assessment year (September 1, noon through September 1, noon). An Assessment Work Notice (Proof of Labor) form must be filed on or before December 30, along with the $10 filing fee per claim. For mill/tunnel sites, a Notice of Intent to Hold must be filed on or before December 30, along with the $10 filing fee per site. To learn more about mining claims/sites filing instructions, please visit our web page mining facts. (43 CFR 3833.1-5 and 43 CFR 3833.1-6)

WHAT IS A SMALL MINERS WAIVER?

A small miners waiver is short for maintenance fee payment waiver certification. A small miners waiver may be filed by those claimants holding 10 or fewer claims/sites, instead of paying the $140 maintenance fee by September 1, of each year. If you choose to file a small miners wavier you must also perform assessment work and file an assessment work notice by December 30, of each year. (43 CFR 3833.1-6)

WHAT QUALIFIES AS ASSESSMENT WORK?

Some of the activities that qualify for assessment work are construction and maintenance of access roads, development drilling and sampling, and buildings that benefit the claim. For more information about what qualifies as assessment work please contact your local BLM office.

HOW DO I TRANSFER A MINING CLAIM?

A mining claim is transfered by recording a Quit Claim Deed with the County Recorder where the mining claim is located, and then by filing the Quit Claim Deed with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) State Office. The cost to file the Quit Claim Deed with the BLM is $10.00 per claimant, per claim. (Please call the County Recorder's Office for their fees). Quit Claim Deeds are usually found at office supply stores.

LAWS AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING MINING CLAIMS/SITES

Mining Law of 1872

Federal Land Policy Management Act of 1976 (FLPMA) - See Section 314

Code of Federal Regulations, 43 CFR 3800

Interior Board of Land Appeals Decisions

FOR MORE INFORMATION

Now available in the Information Access Center is our mining book titled, "Location and Validity of Mining Claims and Sites in California, Latest Edition - Updated 2006." This book explains how to locate and patent mining claims in California. It shows locations, monuments, and claim maps. This book is written by the Bureau of Land Management, and it cost $15. To order, call (916) 978-4400.

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