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Occupancy on mining claims


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I am trying to research claim occupancy.

I have hit a dead end. I need to find the provisions under FSM 2818. FSM 2810 makes referance to FSM 2818 but stops at 2817.11

Can anyone help me find the ellusive FSM 2818? :unsure:

I would be most grateful! :wubu:

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Occupancy is dependent upon the state and land designation. I know what the law says BUT what matters is how much $$$$$$$$$ you want to throw down the money pit to lawyers and judges and how long your willing to rot in jail??? :*&$*(: Just went through this with the folks at FS & BLM-3 weeks every 6 months BUT I just showed up yesterday( :lol: ) is ALWAYS my stance here in litigasous kalif-John :eee: PS-I always try to have at least 2-3 claims contiguous to move from 1 to another to circumvent these insane illegal rules :nono:

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Try this.

http://www.fs.fed.us/cgi-bin/Directives/get_dirs/fsm?2800

Click on 2810 doc., scroll down to page 35. Keep in mind, this is written for the rangers, not the public. Hope this helps. Later...Jim P.

Thanks Jim!

There is an existing cabin on my claim I wish to use in my operations.

I want to avoid any trespassing isues since I understand that it is gov't property since the previous claim holders had built it and then, many years later, abandoned the claim.

Thanks again. ;)

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Thanks Jim!

There is an existing cabin on my claim I wish to use in my operations.

I want to avoid any trespassing isues since I understand that it is gov't property since the previous claim holders had built it and then, many years later, abandoned the claim.

Thanks again. ;)

The understanding I have for cabins in the desert area I detect and mine in are considered first come,first serve. Your welcome to use/not abuse them. Use is not just limited to the mine/holders but any whom wish to camp or explore the desert area. As for how long. I have never had a problem using the 14 day rule from recreation 14 days in 30 and move 25 miles away. This is not a true mining rule but has always worked here in southern ca for me.

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  • 1 month later...

I am trying to research claim occupancy.

I have hit a dead end. I need to find the provisions under FSM 2818. FSM 2810 makes referance to FSM 2818 but stops at 2817.11

Can anyone help me find the ellusive FSM 2818? :unsure:

I would be most grateful! :wubu:

Here in AZ you get 2 weeks in a 30 day period and can not live on a claim full time even if running a active placer mine. BLM enforces this rule here... Correct me if wrong, but this is what BLM told me.

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Here in AZ you get 2 weeks in a 30 day period and can not live on a claim full time even if running a active placer mine. BLM enforces this rule here... Correct me if wrong, but this is what BLM told me.

That is the way I understand it. The only exception that I know of is if you have a POO that includes temporary housing for security personnell. I know that the BLM will allow people to inhabit portable buildings with specific permission, based on the need for security or a "night watchman" if your operation has equipment that is at risk. When we did this we had to address the sewage issue in the POO (it was a self contained RV) and outline how and where the waste would be dumped. They allowed a man to live in the RV for the duration of the project which was more than two years.

NMSHA had a fit over the steps up into the RV, as well as the proximity to an open trench. They gave us more grief about the temporary dwelling than BLM did.

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Another stipulation I came across is that you must provide protection for the general public, should your operation present a hazzard to the general public.

...and yes, a POO/NOI does come into play.

Still, I have the question as to occupying an existing structure during opperation.

I'm feeling that a discussion with my district ranger is in order. :hmmmmm:

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ORAL DISCUSSIONS can get ya in trouble unless recorded. A signed written simple NOI usually is enough and with a signed receipt you have put the process in order to the STRICT TIMELINES involved in getting the required info back from the FS/BLM and hence you must also return(appeal) within constricting timelines. If they DO NOT adhere to these(their own) regulations, then by default you may procede on your op LEGALLY---worked for me many times. A rat from the BLM S.Johnson took 3 years to "get back to me" and I laughed in his stinkn' face as project done over 2 years ago-----idjets-John :rasberry::inocent:

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Occupancy on ming claims is only 2 week in 30 around here.

Most tell them hey I just got here so they will have 2 weeks to move.

I know of two guys that live on there claims full time they both have a Plan Of Ops. and have put up a bond.

I love handing these to public sevants- http://www.incnf.org/publicservantquest.htm

If they coming giving me any trouble.

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Occupancy on ming claims is only 2 week in 30 around here.

Most tell them hey I just got here so they will have 2 weeks to move.

I know of two guys that live on there claims full time they both have a Plan Of Ops. and have put up a bond.

I love handing these to public sevants- http://www.incnf.org/publicservantquest.htm

If they coming giving me any trouble.

I was under the impression that the two weeks in 30 days was for anyone anywhere on public lands. For mining claims it can be modified by your POO for certain reasons. Also for other operations on public land (gravel pits, timber harvest, ranching, etc.etc.) you can ask for an exception in certain cases.

So a claim owner DOES have the opportunity to stay longer on his claim than just another public land user, provided he justifies it and gets permission.

The claim owner next to me has an old building on his claim that was built in the early 30's. He uses it for storage and as a dwelling. I dont think he spends more than 2 weeks per 30 days there ever, but he certainly does use the existing building full time. I know he does not have a POO and I also know that the BLM is O.K. with the usage of this building. He repairs it, stores stuff in it, locks it up, and calls the sheriff when someone breaks into it. It has been this way for 20 years or so and this guy is the nastiest, griping, loudmouthed bully on the planet. If the BLM was going to hassle anyone it would be him for sure.

I think that the BLM here is a lot easier to deal with than in some other places. I hear a lot of horror stories but have never had a bad experience with them. That does not mean that they will let you do anything that you want to, but they dont seem to be too hard to deal with, snotty, or too heavy handed here.

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Not sure if this fits here, but

"The greasiest wheel is the least likely to squeek."

If this doesn't make any sense, see my post referring to the best chardonnay.

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Not sure if this fits here, but

"The greasiest wheel is the least likely to squeek."

If this doesn't make any sense, see my post referring to the best chardonnay.

I get your point Capt.

That's how I have dealt with gov't agencies in the past.

"The claim owner next to me has an old building on his claim that was built in the early 30's. He uses it for storage and as a dwelling. I dont think he spends more than 2 weeks per 30 days there ever, but he certainly does use the existing building full time. I know he does not have a POO and I also know that the BLM is O.K. with the usage of this building. He repairs it, stores stuff in it, locks it up, and calls the sheriff when someone breaks into it."

-BB-

Yes BB, you got me covered to a "T".

Only thing, I don't lock the cabin. If I do, someone will figure there is something to steal and break down the door anyway. I figure that if they can get in they are less likely to destroy things. Heck, all they would get is some canned food and maybe an old Colman stove. LOL

I just use the cabin to eat lunch, maybe take a nap, and from time to time for overnight. The place is pretty remote and I haven't had more than 3 or 4 visitors in the last couple of years.

I figure that if you're hungry then eat, tired then sleep, or cold then get warm.

Just don't tear the place up.

I keep up on repairs, haul off my trash, and keep the surrounding area clean of debris.

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Only thing, I don't lock the cabin. If I do, someone will figure there is something to steal and break down the door anyway. I figure that if they can get in they are less likely to destroy things. Heck, all they would get is some canned food and maybe an old Colman stove. LOL

I just use the cabin to eat lunch, maybe take a nap, and from time to time for overnight. The place is pretty remote and I haven't had more than 3 or 4 visitors in the last couple of years.

I figure that if you're hungry then eat, tired then sleep, or cold then get warm.

Just don't tear the place up.

I keep up on repairs, haul off my trash, and keep the surrounding area clean of debris.

Tell that to the BLM as it refers to the cabins at Martinez Canyon here in Central AZ.

We know it wasn't the 4-wheelers that tore the cabins up. All through the years the trash stopped (both the detritus and degenerates) at the first real obstacle. I just thank God they can't/don't get all the way back to the mine itself. There's still a LOT of the old stuff there and it's really cool to look at and explore.

It really sucks that the cabins got trashed one weekend. They, too, were like taking a step back in time. It looked as if the folks who lived there just decided one day to go for a walk and never came back.

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