broken arrow 1 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Hi All,This is so sneaky. Under the new Health Care Legislation, there is a hidden provision in it.Starting Jan. 1 2012 Anyone selling $600.00 or more in Gold, Silver coins or bullion willbe 1099 form to the IRS. This is one of there ways to help pay for health care. (unbelievable) I guess there will be a huge sell off in Au Dec 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsSifter 1 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Hi All,This is so sneaky. Under the new Health Care Legislation, there is a hidden provision in it.Starting Jan. 1 2012 Anyone selling $600.00 or more in Gold, Silver coins or bullion willbe 1099 form to the IRS. This is one of there ways to help pay for health care. (unbelievable) I guess there will be a huge sell off in Au Dec 2011Its really not a Gold Tax, it is a small business tax. Any business that has any transaction over $600 will have to file the 1099. This is not only very bad from a financial point of view, but it is also horrible because it will be very time consuming. As if our tax laws are not bad enough. What this will do, is make some Gold transactions from guys like us, go to the black market, if you sell over $600 bucks at a time, So I wonder if we wil sell our Gold in smaller quantities to avoid filing.There is another concern I have besides this law. It is something passing like the Executive Order 6102. FDR passed this law back in 1933 and made it unlawful to hold/hoard ANY Gold, with a few exceptions. Of course this was changed by Republicans....But as Obama is really following in the Socialist footsteps of yesteryear, I am a bit worried that he may try something like that order, albeit a hybrid of it. We are already losing access to lands to even hunt for Gold and other metals, so any further legislature that would attack the collection of metals, would really hurt.I welcome any opposing views on this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ron l. 0 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 yep, what if the present gob. does make it illegal for us to own gold in quanities?just another move to try and control our live's and everything else we do.they keep picking away at out freedom.take care. ron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Gilmore 6 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 So basically if you go into a pawn shop and sell $600 worth of stuff there is now a 1099 paper trail? Wonder if that will affect criminals on welfare? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Gilmore 6 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 yep, what if the present gob. does make it illegal for us to own gold in quanities?just another move to try and control our live's and everything else we do.they keep picking away at out freedom.take care. ronIf the gov. were to make owning gold illegal. Do they have to provide a method to sell off the gold you have now ?If Not then it looks like time for revolution. Was not that something the gernams did in the late 1930's?There is no real reason for the gov. to take control of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frank c 969 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 ITS JUST another way of doing things, when the country is controlled by lawyers there's always "another" way of doing things.Oh by the way wellcome to the "country of laws" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Au Seeker 3,170 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Executive Order 6102 only affected gold coin, bullion, and gold certificates, it didn't have any affect on people owning or mining raw gold, it was in my opinion a double cross perpetrated on the people of the USA even though they did pay you for any gold that you were required to turn in at the going rate of $20.67, a person was allowed to retain up to $100 worth of gold, the bad part of it all was as soon as they got all the gold that wasn't/sent taken to foreign counties/bank accounts, they set the price of gold to $35 almost doubling it value now that they had complete control of the gold. It could very well happen again, but it would be very bad this time IMHO as most of "We the People" are about feed up with the way the Government is seemingly taking control of our very lives!!! Skip Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsSifter 1 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Executive Order 6102 only affected gold coin, bullion, and gold certificates, it didn't have any affect on people owning or mining raw gold, it was in my opinion a double cross perpetrated on the people of the USA even though they did pay you for any gold that you were required to turn in at the going rate of $20.67, a person was allowed to retain up to $100 worth of gold, the bad part of it all was as soon as they got all the gold that wasn't/sent taken to foreign counties/bank accounts, they set the price of gold to $35 almost doubling it value now that they had complete control of the gold. It could very well happen again, but it would be very bad this time IMHO as most of "We the People" are about feed up with the way the Government is seemingly taking control of our very lives!!! SkipSkip your facts are right and as I said, I look for a hybrid of that law. With deploying the 1099 on every transaction over $600.....well surely you must realize that they will stop at nothing to poke into our "poke"....In studying EO 6102 during that time there were a lot less "rich" people in the nation per capita. The taxation of America is going to begin in earnest. Frank is not far off though....the more laws you have, the harder it is to fight them and the Government. One more thing if I am be so bold. The Cap and Trade bill has ben shelved. As I said a few months ago, look for another Executive order, giving the EPA the power to limit carbon output and actually fine the offenders. Giving the EPA that power gets around Congress and also calling it a "Tax". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paratrooper 40 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 As I understand the 1099 rules there is another catch . If you do smaller than $600 deals with the SAME person and make a total of over $600 for the year you STILL get a 1099 . You gotta deal with different people and no more than $600 with any one . BUT , this puts da gubmint only one step away from knowing who you are . Just like the BATFE can walk into a gun shop and demand records they can come up with some kind of crap to get records from gold dealers as to who they dealt with for ANY amounts . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sawmill 69 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 OK Guys As one who is real familiar with federal taxcodes and regulations,after I quit laughing Iwill explain this so called new gold tax. :yuk-yuk: This tax and 1099 requirements are a long ways frombeing a new deal. They are just going to enforce anold rule that the rest of us have complied with foryears. It is not a small business tax,but it is a wayof documenting income for non employment income,andsales of goods by private parties,at $600.00 or moreper tax year. If you have sold gold to a refiner,there is alreadya paper trail. If the amount was over $600.00 ,youmay get a visit from the IRS,if it wasn't reportedon your 1040 or other forms at tax time. This new enforcement policy is aimed at so calledhobby coin dealers,and hobby sales of gold and otherthings. Any income generated by a hobby over $400.00per year is reportable income,and moves you from ahobby status. The $400.00 figure could have changedsince I last looked. Several of the so called hobby dealers are hidingincome under the guise of a hobby. This is calledtax evasion in the real world. The 1099 is just aninformation document. If your sales of gold does notraise your income in excess ,it is not a big deal.They are not going to come and tax you just for thesale of the gold. As a business I am required to furnish all contractorswith a 1099 ,so they can file it with their taxes. I am also required to furnish a copy to the IRS. Generalsales and purchases are covered by normal book keepingand other documentation.Large cash sales or payments toa vendor that doesn't have a federal tax ID number arealso reported on a 1099. That way the feds can track it. Just for the record,the federal government has neverrecognized ,prospecting,or mining as a hobby. This istheir way of letting folks know,that if you are goingto profit,from mining or prospecting,you will be treatedas a business,and pay taxes. On the good side,if they can call us a business andcollect a few taxes ,they may let us survive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
homefire 2,581 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Ok! If I sell 1000.00 in gold, I have not made 1000.00 in capital gains.How do I Adjust the amount?This is BS!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sawmill 69 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Homefire If you have bought the $1000.00 in gold andare selling it,you deduct the buying price andonly count the profit. If this does not raiseyour gross income on your 1040 enough to tax itis no big deal. Any profit from the sale is justadded to your gross income. All the 1099 does,isdocument the transaction. If the sale actuallydid provide a taxable profit,it can be dealt withby other means when doing your taxes. If you found the gold while prospecting or miningduring the tax year,$1000.00 would not be a hobby. You would have to file taxes as a business,and deductyour expenses,like everyone else,that deals for a profit. Hobbies were never meant to produce a profit or income.Anything that does produce an income or profit is abusiness,and subject to taxes. If you are prospecting like the federal mining lawsintended ,you are a business,or should be. A businesscan deduct most operating expenses,and some loss.Butunless you are selling several thousand dollars wortha year,most people will never pay a dimes worth of taxbecause of normal income and deductions allowed. This new deal is aimed at people that are running abusiness ,dealing with several thousand dollar a year,while trying to hide it as a hobby. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Gilmore 6 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 If your talking about selling gold you bought. You'll need to have paperwork showing what you bought it for. If you mean gold you mined. I'm guessing you'll need to show cost of operation,equipment and stuff to determing the actual value , however any business figures it's income vs. expenses. Being laws are written by lawyers. It looks like another move to find more work for lawyers so they fill out the taxes and add another charge to the cost of small mining. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Micro Nugget 770 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Bottom line for prospectors: Best way to become a millionaire is to start out as a billionaire. And, yes, do save all those receipts that you rack up trying to find each extra gram of gold. They add up and likely will more than offset any 1099 statements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rudy 0 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 The good news is that the high dollar Mine Labs can be a write off....now that's what I call STIMULUS! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hoser John 1,240 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 CASH IS KING-ALWAYS-John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ringer 1 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 The new HCB rule on 1099's is not the same as the old laws. I own a business and instead of listing all purchases from each vendor as a single entry on my tax forms I will have to issue a 1099 to each of the 30 vendors I have. Some businesses that sell retail will have tens of thousands of 1099 forms to fill out. It is just a way for the IRS to force business to handle their duties to catch tax cheats. Another job killer since every motion we make costs us money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsSifter 1 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 The new HCB rule on 1099's is not the same as the old laws. I own a business and instead of listing all purchases from each vendor as a single entry on my tax forms I will have to issue a 1099 to each of the 30 vendors I have. Some businesses that sell retail will have tens of thousands of 1099 forms to fill out. It is just a way for the IRS to force business to handle their duties to catch tax cheats. Another job killer since every motion we make costs us money.Thats what I was saying too. The increase in paperwork is enormous. at IRS.GOV the section for "whts new" is large and demanding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idaho Al 1 Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 Ringer hit it right on the head, some small busnesses will stop dealing with gold/ silver or raise their precentage to cover the added expences of the paperwork. There is a local busness that said they no longer will deal with coins and gold because of their low profit margin and added paper-workload...........Idaho Al Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ron l. 0 Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 just another way to take more controll of our live's as our freedom is slipping away.take care. ron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
homefire 2,581 Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 What a bunch of crap!This just shows how this bunch will force there hand on any agenda they want.This was pushed in a bill having NOTHING to do with Taxes.All it's going to do is put undue burden on small businesses and Force people selling small quantities of gold to treat there End of Year Taxes as they are a Business.Just because you sell $600.00 in gold does not mean you made $600.00...I predict a widespread underground economy being born. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
El Dorado 964 Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 What a bunch of crap!This just shows how this bunch will force there hand on any agenda they want.This was pushed in a bill having NOTHING to do with Taxes.All it's going to do is put undue burden on small businesses and Force people selling small quantities of gold to treat there End of Year Taxes as they are a Business.Just because you sell $600.00 in gold does not mean you made $600.00...I predict a widespread underground economy being born.Just an FYI, there already is Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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