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Terry Soloman

Viva America! Viva Arizona!

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:*&$*(: I thought there were moderators here now???? :shrug:

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BB.... calm down you are getting yourself worked up over words, they are just that words.

Force is the ultimate answer to stopping impunity...........look at history, it is the only thing that really works

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BB.... calm down you are getting yourself worked up over words, they are just that words.

Force is the ultimate answer to stopping impunity...........look at history, it is the only thing that really works

Shooting innocent people won't work in this case. If we are to shoot anyone on the border we need to stick to armed combatants, of which there are plenty. It will only make situations worse and cause even more division in this country that there already is.

We have a huge problem with violent drug dealing thugs that walk all over the police and the citizenry. There is your impunity. Unarmed farm workers and families are hardly a threat to anyone here. Sure there needs to be deportation, control on the border, and solutions to the problem. Murder of unarmed people is certainly not the solution.

Words...Just words. Racist words that will do much more harm than good on the border. I realize that you are completely unaware of how your suggestion would really play out because you are unfamiliar with the country and the situation. Most people are. Instead of suggesting radical violent ideas as a solution, why dont you get behind the very good ideas that have been suggested by the leaders on the border? There are plenty of good solutions to the problem that have not even been tried .

Only a handfull of "miss imformed" people would suggest such a backwards policy. It would do much more harm than good and surely you can see that. We dont want a race war here. We are trying our best to keep the insanity and muder from spreading across the border now. It seems that you are advocating taking part in this insanity and actively bringing it across the border.

If any group starts shooting innocent people here the population of the southwest (adn America as a whole) will definitely side with the illegals. No doubt about it. If a group decided to shoot at the armed thugs and killers that are the real problem on the border they would be widely supported. If anyone were to actually try and curb the smuggling problem here the people would throw rose petals and worship them as a hero.

Please learn a little about the border and the dynamics that are in play down here before advocating violence against innocents. With so many bad guys running around with IMPUNITY we all cringe when people who do not know the situation start talking about killing the pawns.

It pays to keep the muzzle pointed at the threat. Once you know enough about the border to be able to identify the threat the solutions are rather simple. It is plain that you dont know who is the threat. Please listen to reason and support logical border policy that will solve the problem rather than make it much worse.

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Bobby

Remember, I am saying that force needs to come from our National Guard, Border Patrol or military.... not from ordinary citizens which you seem to think I mean. We are being invaded, our security is being compromised, it' obvious that this is getting worse by the day and needs to be stopped by any means , diplomacy certainly does not work!

A good friend of mine that is a Chief of Police in Texas recently took some Vacation time in Az to do a bit of prospecting, he sent this letter to me after returning:

"Have you ever wondered what triggered the recent Arizona law against illegal aliens? They say one photo is worth a thousand words. Sandy and I just returned from a week long vacation in Arizona and while gold prospecting near Sierra Vista we encountered a formerly pristine canyon with a small stream in it that was littered with human waste, back packs, underwear and many, many other items. Obviously this was a well used trail for drug smugglers and illegal's and the sight was pitiful. I couldn't help but wonder where the outrage was from all the environmentalists and bunny huggers to this terrible trashing of the desert and the home of many animals and plants??? After walking around a while we came upon the Feds response to this environmental and security tragedy. Attached is a photo of what they are doing to prevent drug smuggling and illegal immigration. Now do you understand why the American people are frustrated by our "secure borders"? Of course, I kept a .45 Colt and a 12 gauge shotgun nearby while enjoying the "beautiful" Arizona desert and basking in the knowledge that ICE was protecting us............We saw 20 ICE agents north of Tombstone at a roadblock and not a SINGLE one in this obviously well know smuggling trail. Hmmmmm? Do you think maybe someone wants these people to get through our borders? Please pass this along to your friends who may not understand the pitiful effort being put forth to protect our country and citizens. If the Feds know the area well enough to post this sign do you think maybe they could actually catch them????????????? XXXXXXXX

post-1252-127359293063_thumb.jpg

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Your unfamiliarity with the situation is obvious. Your questions are exactly the same as everyone else who spends their time more than 75 miles north of the border. The logic is simply unfathomable unless you know the details.

Yes, it is ridiculous how we handle the situation now. It is because of those trucks going south that gives them the power to make it so. Those trucks going south enable the holes in the border. They allow the trails to be known and signs to be put up and no CBP or ICE to be found. The MONEY causes the line to be 10 miles north of the border rather than AT the border.

These are the things you need to learn before you select a target and click off the safety. The answers to the questions you ask in your post above are EXACTLY what you need to know in order to understand why things are as they are.

Again, if ther were men there with rifles to shoot, then they would never need to burn the powder. It really does not matter if a militia kills unarmed peons or the military does it...Murder is murder and it will NEVER fly and it will NEVER solve the problem. It will only divide AMERICANS against each other. Those smuggling routes are bought and paid for and until those routes are NOT FOR SALE illegals, terrorists, drugs, money, arms, and weath will cross. Stop the money and the problem goes away. Sure shots will be fired but not at unarmed innocents.

Keep asking why Eldorado. When those answers come and you realize what the problem is and where our threat lies you will begin to see the big picture.

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Today’s high level of illegal immigration originated during the war years of the early 1940s. Labor shortages caused the federal government to set up a program to import Mexican laborers to work temporarily in agriculture, primary in the Southwest. This was called the Bracero Program. The goal was to import foreign workers (originally thought to number in the hundreds) during agricultural harvest and then encourage them to go home.

This has continued because the American Business men, what the cheap labor for factory work, construction all the way down to landscaping. In conjunction with sealing the borders, it must be noted that businesses that hire illegals must be punished sharply. Fine them heavily. Also as my my brother used to say, shut down Western Union and their remittances to Mexico.

here are some numbers that support why Arizona has passed the law here.

post-21993-127359464537_thumb.gif

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Today’s high level of illegal immigration originated during the war years of the early 1940s. Labor shortages caused the federal government to set up a program to import Mexican laborers to work temporarily in agriculture, primary in the Southwest. This was called the Bracero Program. The goal was to import foreign workers (originally thought to number in the hundreds) during agricultural harvest and then encourage them to go home.

This has continued because the American Business men, what the cheap labor for factory work, construction all the way down to landscaping. In conjunction with sealing the borders, it must be noted that businesses that hire illegals must be punished sharply. Fine them heavily. Also as my my brother used to say, shut down Western Union and their remittances to Mexico.

here are some numbers that support why Arizona has passed the law here.

YES, not all wealth headed south is in trucks. Western Union is a big player. Businesses are the ultimate answer to averting the problem. Again, MONEY. As long as it is profitable for smugglers and illegals the flow will not stop. Take away the profit and the problem ceases. The only profits for illegals are their jobs and the money they send back home. Take this away and our illegal problem diminishes suddenly. Then the REAL problem may become more obviouos to those that are unfamiliar with the border.

There are so many fronts that we have not even tried. Our goverment is all about telling us that it is all OK or that it is too big a problem to address. In futility we turn to thoughts and words of violence. This is simply becasue we dont see the real solutions becasue most of us do not live in that environment.

The facts are that there are MANY thigns that can be effective NOW that will make us stronger and respected in the world and with the Mexican and Hispanic American population. Win win situations that our government refuses to employ because it would hurt their under the table profits and expose a buttload of corruption.

Your suggestions are RIGHT ON HPS. You know the border and live there. Hit 'em where it hurts and remove incentive to break the law.

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Another great question to ask would be "why is New Mexico not on that list of states that HPS posted".

If you realize fully why the home of the Rio Grande Corridor does not even figure into the numbers then you will have a key piece of the puzzle. It might help to understand that there are a lot more factors at play than those that meet the eye.

Surely New Mexico has illegal aliens? I guess not. No use going on a trophy hunt for wetbacks here! In Texas there are millions, Arizona there are millions... But New Mexico seems to be a vacuum along the border. Why does the very heart of "Aztlan" not even mentioned in that chart?

For anyone who thinks the really understand the situation on the border you should be able to answer that question. Anyone who advocates force had better know what the scoop is there.

Maybe some white boys from back east will Google it and try to educate me on that one too.

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In stead of bickering we need to find solutions. Arizona has two problems that stand between us and the nuggets. One is mountain lions and the other, well you know. Lets try a little catch and release. Catch the problem cats up north and release them along the border the ida is not to hurt any one but to get the word south that something hungery is waiting on the other side. Why don't we put up the same boader they use at area 51 as far as I know no one has crossed that. :hmmmmm:

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B.B.,.....

Wetbacks?

White boys?

Now who's being racial, Hmmm? :hmmmmm:

Call me a "white boy" to my face and I'll jack your Frickin' jaw! :*&$*(:

( you just offended me, and ticked me off big time )

For your information, Americans of all national backgrounds are fed up with ANYONE who comes here illegaly, for any reason. Doesn't matter if they are pushing drugs, commiting various crimes, or crossing the border for a "better life" (at yours and my expence, by the way).

They're just a bunch of G.D. thieves. They come here illegaly and take what ever they can get. You can call me wrong, but I'm right, and you Frickin' know it, whether you'll admit it or not. I don't have to live within 75 miles of the border to know what is goin' on. Maybe you're standing too close to the forest to really see the trees. This is not just a border state issue.

Illegal is illegal, period.

All the law breakin' S.O.B.'s should be punished, not given a free ride as in say, amnesty or gov't giveaways.

Send 'em all home and lock the Frickin' gate!

Heck, they walked here, they can walk back, and at gun point if need be.

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Good video by the Governor. She stands up for her state in spite of the childish name calling.I have nothing but respect for her.

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I was rather shall we say....fumed....when I saw this add from John McCain. I hope everyone does not think McCain has helped in any way with the illegal problem. He called it the God D--m fence for years. Now its re election time and he is all of a sudden for it?

This add from him made me puke

How long before he’s spotted on the trail wearing a “Viva Los 1070″ t-shirt?

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/10/new-mccain-ad-you-cannot-be-serious/

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Maybe some white boys from back east will Google it and try to educate me on that one too.

Bob,

Are you jabbing at me now?

I'm one of the "white boys from back east", but I can't educate you unfortunately, only you can do that, and the education has nothing to do with illegals or the border.

The moderators of this section of the forums seems to be absent, I have no moderating abilities in this section, so I guess your are saying to yourself "Free at Last Thank God Almighty Free at Last!!!", enjoy.

Skip

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Bob,

Are you jabbing at me now?

I'm one of the "white boys from back east", but I can't educate you unfortunately, only you can do that, and the education has nothing to do with illegals or the border.

The moderators of this section of the forums seems to be absent, I have no moderating abilities in this section, so I guess your are saying to yourself "Free at Last Thank God Almighty Free at Last!!!", enjoy.

Skip

Seems like just when a discussion gets deep, "someone" pisses in my beer.

Maybe I'll come back later, when things have cooled down. <_<

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Seems like just when a discussion gets deep, "someone" pisses in my beer.

Maybe I'll come back later, when things have cooled down. <_<

I with ya George, this is B.S.!

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I would like to go on record as a White Boy from back east.....But I have been down here on the border for so long, I have forgotten what "East" was like. I do remember that the only decent football team ever is and was the Miami Dolphins and I miss the food.

Down here on the border, you have very few good restaurants, so you have to be a good cook.

Guys I really would like to keep talking about this topic as it really is near to what we do. Prospecting is the only thing besides hunting were a gun is part of my equipment.

So I'm gonna ask, that we keep it civil. I dont care what Bob or Eldorado fight about, I have seen that we ALL care about the illegal issue. I am also confident that all of us, would stand side by side to defend our country. Most of us have done that already. I hope we dont have to do it again, on our homeland. Some days though, I shake my head and worry... :twocents:

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B.B.,.....

Wetbacks?

White boys?

Now who's being racial, Hmmm? :hmmmmm:

Call me a "white boy" to my face and I'll jack your Frickin' jaw! :*&$*(:

( you just offended me, and ticked me off big time )

For your information, Americans of all national backgrounds are fed up with ANYONE who comes here illegaly, for any reason. Doesn't matter if they are pushing drugs, commiting various crimes, or crossing the border for a "better life" (at yours and my expence, by the way).

They're just a bunch of G.D. thieves. They come here illegaly and take what ever they can get. You can call me wrong, but I'm right, and you Frickin' know it, whether you'll admit it or not. I don't have to live within 75 miles of the border to know what is goin' on. Maybe you're standing too close to the forest to really see the trees. This is not just a border state issue.

Illegal is illegal, period.

All the law breakin' S.O.B.'s should be punished, not given a free ride as in say, amnesty or gov't giveaways.

Send 'em all home and lock the Frickin' gate!

Heck, they walked here, they can walk back, and at gun point if need be.

I cant argue with a thing that you said. What is the problem?

Wetback is not a racist word. It means an illegal alien and has nothing to do with race. Now "beaner" is a racist word. Especially when you say, "I hate those beaners" like El Dorado did. Now THAT is racist! It directly implies HATE against another race, the very definition of racist. Look it up.

White boy? Should I have said caucasion? Gavacho? Surely not gringo or anglo because those are racist descriptions. What do you prefer? It does not really matter to me. I certainly was not being racist. It wasnt derrogatory, it was just a description of the race that I was talking about. I am a white boy too. But it seems you white boys...er....caucasion men are getting violent when this white boy says there are better ways than shooting wetbacks to address the situation. Violence. Jacking jaws, double taps, center mass violent. Violent over issues of race. darn. Sounds racist to me.

Just an observation. I am not accusing you caucasion men of being racist. I am just saying it looks an awful lot like it to this white boy.

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I cant argue with a thing that you said. What is the problem?

Wetback is not a racist word. It means an illegal alien and has nothing to do with race. Now "beaner" is a racist word. Especially when you say, "I hate those beaners" like El Dorado did. Now THAT is racist! It directly implies HATE against another race, the very definition of racist. Look it up.

White boy? Should I have said caucasion? Gavacho? Surely not gringo or anglo because those are racist descriptions. What do you prefer? It does not really matter to me. I certainly was not being racist. It wasnt derrogatory, it was just a description of the race that I was talking about. I am a white boy too. But it seems you white boys...er....caucasion men are getting violent when this white boy says there are better ways than shooting wetbacks to address the situation. Violence. Jacking jaws, double taps, center mass violent. Violent over issues of race. darn. Sounds racist to me.

Just an observation. I am not accusing you caucasion men of being racist. I am just saying it looks an awful lot like it to this white boy.

Ah, typical BB again.....playing both sides of the fence again in order to agitate and get the entire thread pulled down as Skip has already eluded to!

Gee I remember when the term "wetback back" and "white boy" or "whop" or etc. was coined.....ah hell, none are racist terms :hmmmmm: :inocent: according to the logic of Bob which he now tries to excuse himself from saying! :yuk-yuk:

Gary

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You remember when white was coined as a decription for whites? You must be pretty old. Tower of babel old.

Wetback has been used as a derrogoatory term for hispanics I realize. On the border it does not mean hispanic. It means an illegal crosser. It refers to an activity. Most crossers are Mexican. Most roofers are Mexican too. The term "roofer" is no more derrogatory that the term wetback. If an Palestinian crosses at San Ellie he is a wetback. If a Mexican crosses at San Ellie he is a wetback. If a little old Jewish lady crosses there she is a wetback too.

If we can discuss Hispanics why not Caucasions? If we can call American Hispanics Mexicans, Latinos, and BEANERS then why cant we call white boys white boys? Again, whatever you prefer to be called, it is YOUR RACE AFTER ALL.

Both sides of the issue? Becasue I dont submit to a POLITICAL stereotype it is called playing both sides? Hey, I dont beleive that anyone should shoot wetbacks. That is all I have said. I beleive in securing the borders, I believe in sending them home...It is all plain. But when someone advocates shooting them it is simply wrong. If I dont get on this racist WHITE BOY BANDWAGON advocating racial violence toward Mexican citizens I am two faced?

You fellows reap what you sow. I fear that you are in for a big letdown if you believe that anyone is going to purge the southwest of illegal aliens and use force to do it. If logical policy is employed it will surely help the problem and help us all to live together peacefully. As long as WHITE BOYS advocate shooing BEANERS then most peole will be against you.

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You know, I didnt start this thread, John Hoser Oates did. It ran along with some good information for awhile, then a few people have to start the crap yet again. Some peoples first and only post, was to add to the disharmony.

While yes this is a political issue, it is also an issue that for at least some of us, goes hand in hand with our craft. Both are an outdoor activity. I have attempted to post only facts and statistics about the current situation. But once again a few people have screwed it up. Its always the same people arguing.

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I am also confident that all of us, would stand side by side to defend our country. Most of us have done that already. I hope we dont have to do it again, on our homeland. Some days though, I shake my head and worry... :twocents:

HPS. You have a lot to worry about as long as Americans see an unarmed group of peons as the enemy and continue ignoring the most violent and richest terrorist organization in the world that is causing the problem (open borders and smuggling routes).

We can send each and every illegal back tomorrow and he will be back on Wednesday unless we do something about the larger problems. Again I use the analogy of Korea and the tactic of using unarmed civilians as a nuisance to keep us busy while the real business goes on in teh background.

We are dividing ourselves over the use of violence against unarmed people. It is obvious that many here want more than a workable border policy. They want REVENGE against the Mexican for things they feel the Mexican has done to them. It is not a discussion about whether the Arizona law is unconstitutional. THAT is about asking for citizenship papers. We are WAY past that here and the true colors are coming out. We want to KILL and DEPORT ALL MEXICANS NOW. Not only that but we want them to walk, we want to do it at gunpoint, we are saying that they do not contribute anyhtign to our society, adn some have stooped to open statements of hate (not in this thread, but in threads in the past).

It is obvious that there is a lot of credibility in the argument that racist views are alive and well. Can you imagine and Arizona cop with an attitude like El Dorado or Got Gold? Are there cops in Arizona that have advocated poisoning thirsty children as a solution to the problem? We certainly have one or two of them in our midst here. They have made their feelings plain and are willing to put them in black and white and sign their name to it. It is hate in its purest form.

If America was the freedom loving and righteous country that it pretended to be then most of her problems woudl go away. We dont realy cater to illegal aliens as much as we cater to hateful honkies (now THERE is a racist word. It perfectly describes a white racist though so I will use it here). They are well paid, an integral part of our society, take full advantage of our welfare and social services systems, and are MUCH lazier than any illegal alien out there. Theyu are also gun packin', dangerous, and hateful to anyone of color. additionally they are hateful to anyone who does not agree with their radical views.

These men are our biggest threat. These men are the ones that will cause a shooting battle in this country. The Timothy Macveigh's of yesterday are going to rise again on this issue and make it impossible for logic and the American principles to prevail. Hate for people of color are going to cripple our ability to adopt sensible policies on imigration and border security.

These men feel that a group of peons are the threat to this nation. This is becasue they SEE these people and they do not SEE the reality of the real threat. The problem on the border is not an issue to them becasue they are far removed. all they know is that they dont like the illegals and they feel they are taking advantage. They simply do not realize there is a much larger and more sinister side of the issue and are focused on eliminating immigrants.

It wont be long until one of these crackers (another racist word to describe a racist white) gets drunk and decides to take matters in his own hands, believeing he is a patriot. While it was all "just words" before, those words will empower the redneck (another racist term) to act violently against some unarmed illegal as was suggested in this thread. At that point, any hope of logic or progress will be lost.

As long as we allow blowhards and macho men to talk tough about killing people of another color we are complicit in this hate. If we suppot it by ignoring the fact that it is wrong, and try to villify people who take exception to the idea of hate we are guilty by proxy.

If men visualize a fair and humane way of dealing with illegal immigrants the problem goes away rapidly. There are many thigns we can do. If tough guys that advocate violence were half as anxious to engage armed criminals as they were unarmed families our problems would rapidly disappear. I dont see anyone here with the plumbs to even suggest it. It is all about spilling the blood of unarmed pawns who are disgusing ly brown and are soaking up all the welfare meant for lazy crackers.

Mexicans and Americans both share a common enemy, and the Mexicans are waging a shooting battle with them. The Americans are absent and are sitting on their hands. Mexicans are dying for their country and all Americans can do is make the problem worse by financing the bad guys, blaming the brown people, and insisting that the main problem is poor waifs crossing into the U.S. We have already surendered. We dont acknowedge the threat and we deny there is a problem.

I urge you all to learn what is going on and make good decisions on the course of action to take. There is too much at stake here. The issue is not people, immigration laws, Arizona, constitutionality or anything else. The issue is our inability to look past color and see the real threat looming on the horizon.

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Sorry Bob, I know you are as passionate about this country and subject as I am. You also have a right to post your opinions about it. But under that same right, I have a right to disagree. There is only one thing that needs to be done. That is to absolutely seal the border. Until that is done, everything else is frosting.

Are there people out there that are bigots and gun for anyone of color....Yup...unfortunately that is an American Legacy that I for one am not proud of. But on the illegal immigration issue, all of this can go away by sealing the borders.

This issue is testing our social cohesion at a time when most Americans are suffering through this economy. Where we are now finding out (or finally realizing), that we are being taken over from forces within our nation, not without.

The Republicans still want the cheap labor and the Democrats still want the Mexican vote. We are fighting 2 wars and and can really kick anyones butt on the planet....but yet our Government can not seem to protect us, here on our homeland. What will happen when you combine this issue with 5-10 dollar gasoline. Or a shortage of food. Or as another post states, we wake up and find out 2nd Amendment has been circumvented and we are now all outlaws? How pissed is everyone that we are losing lands to prospect on....hows that dredging going in California....is your equipment operating?

We are no longer America. We have lost our way. We have let it happen.

I now stand to protect myself and my own. With my guile, my guns and my knowledge that I know I stand for what is right. For what is right morally. I can not change what my fellow Americans think or do about this issue. Only they can...But I can monitor myself and when I am backed up against the mountain, I'll be fighting for myself and those that hold the true American values set forth by our Founding Fathers. Believe me, its not a romantic situation in the least. Its a down and dirty one that will not test Social Cohesion, but test men and womens will to live.

Most of my years are behind me, I seen some really great Americans and deeds in my lifetime. But that seems to be over now. I will say this, that one man defending his, is stronger than any 10 men. God only knows if it will result in something like that for this country. But as I shake my head in worry, I am also becoming more and more ready for it.

I am done with this subject.

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There is only one thing that needs to be done. That is to absolutely seal the border. Until that is done, everything else is frosting.

Of course I absolutely agree with that statement. But selaing the border alone is just like a cake without the frosting. We will have to have a militarized border forever unless we address the larger issues and take care of much unfinished business.

Then there is the obligation to stop supporting terror in Mexico. I consider that a heck of a lot more than just icing. That is the CAKE. As long as americans donate $100 Billion to terror and $13 Billion to the government of Mexico, and issist on carrying on with the trillion dollar drug war we can expect failure. We are actively investing in our failure.

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I was just researching what documents I will have to present when renewing my drivers license and came across three sets of instructions, those for US citizens, those for legal immigrants, and those for "undocumented immigrants". They actually give instructions on how illegal immigrants can obtain a drivers license, and they will accept a Mexican voter registration card as ID, insane!

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Time to close the topic even though it is near and dear to our hearts and freedom. We need to talk about gold and memembers and something related to the forum. thanks Jerry

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