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Metal Detectors and Detecting


John B.

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Hi Greg and All

Greg my finger has tryed everything and can't pull up that page. The implications of Al's citation for artifacts (common trash)can be horrific and could put a hault to all, mining even minor disturbance with a gold pan if they wish to persue it further. These guys could make thousands on a weekend on some of the more popular prospecting areas and hundreds of thousands at places like Rich Hill or Linx Creek. If it pertains to forest service land no public domain lands would be safe. Just my thoughts !! Happy Huntin John B.

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Yup, it had nothing to do with artifacts! You guys that know all about this stuff or thought you did have got a bunch more very rude shocks in store for you. The Feds are going to shut us down to metal detecting in their little designated areas probably past the picnic tables out behind the outhouses and probably for a fee. Archaeological, anthropological and paleontological artifacts in known sites and undiscovered sites are and have been protected by law for many years, they just haven't been enforcing them. There are many more people against us and in much higher places than us that are behind this. Universities, societies, associations, and scientists of those disciplines. Just like I said in my first post and several past posts in coin hunting sections of some prospecting forums. Agencies of the Dept. of Agriculture are all involved in this so the FS is just the tip of the iceberg. It seems for every rule or law that says we can be out there they have more saying we can't be out there. They don't care about fair or rights and it seems are more than willing to fight us in court. The BLM has a warning posted that makes it clear permits are for scientists only. Eventually we probably won't even be allowed to have a working metal detector in our possession out of a designated detecting area even if we are just carrying one like Al was when the FS cop saw him off of the GPAA claim. We are a very small interest group up against giant opposition. We're basically screwed, it's just a matter of time and our hobby won't be worth messing with.

BLM-Collecting Artifacts & Fossils on Public Lands ...If one Fed agency that oversees public land has it all of them do.

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John B

My bad You need to leave off the shtml- part when

you type the link in.

www.fs.fed.us/r2/psicc/recreation/rules/rockHounding.

OK this is for all you guys like Frogmick that preach

gloom and doom.

There is a reason why I quizzed Al C.and stayed after this

deal. A LEO or Ranger can mislead someone while pointing

out certain rules. They can twist things,show you what they

want you to see,and even get you to admit to stuff,by confusing

things.

If you believe them and just mail in the money,you are giving

them power. The LEO figures that was easy,these people are

push overs. Think what he is going to do to the next victim.

It just gets worse ,and he just gets more out of control.

The truth is very few Forest Service tickets stand up in

court. Over 70 percent of all tickets written by the Forest

Service here were thrown out by the judges.Most of the 30

percent remaining were not contested and just mailed in.

After a LEO has to attend so many court appearances just

to watch his crap go up in smoke they get kind of humble.

By not contesting them,you are just feeding the dragon,the

more he is fed the bigger he gets.

Gray areas work both ways,most won't stand up in court or

stand the test of common law.

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sawmill, your point is understood. You are correct that is the way it has been and hopefully that won't change. In the last 45 years or so since I've been an adult I've noticed that things always seem to change and for the worst too. Time will tell and we will see.

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Frogmick

I hope that I didn't offend you ,I was just making

a point. Yes I agree with most of your thoughts too.

On some land grab matters we are screwed.

What I am trying to point out is never roll over just

because some self important little dictator says he is

right and you have to do as he says. LEO's and Rangers

depend on the public being gullible,and ignorant of their

rights and the law.

What is happening in the Greaterville area is there is

some self appointed crusaders on the loose. As long as

they can push people around ,they will only get worse.

The school yard bully thing is what they are doing only

they are using their official status and BS rules to get

their way.

There is no way in hell they would collect one red cent

from me without proving their case in court. I have been

around long enough that I would bow up and give these

clowns something to think about. There is legal ways to

stop that kind of crap before it takes hold. All it takes

is to bloody their nose in court a time or two.

In the last 45 years I have taught more than a few Forest

Service folks a little humility .

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No offense taken sawmill. I've been reading your posts for a long time and you are very experienced and knowledgeable.

I just think the old Fed rules used on public land use are fixing to go out the window because of the liberal left way of thinking

now in power and it is going to greatly affect metal detecting on public lands.

I do not advocate rolling over either. The Feds want to test this in court and I believe it goes a lot higher than local FS bullies

pushing gullible public around.

I don't think the last 45 years mean much more than past changes. Now it's a new ball game and they are trying to get the ball

rolling to shut public lands down more and get more control.

If this case doesn't go to court then one like it will someplace else and we will hopefully hear about it and what happens.

As for your opinions they are respected here, just not fully agreed with on this matter. We'll just have to wait and see.

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I tried to point out the BLM's enforcement of hisorical artifacts collection a couple of weeks ago on another forum.

I was specifily warning people about the Havasu Gold Diggers claims and the .50 & .30 Cal brass out there and was pretty well told I was full of it and they would do what ever they liked, well fine I know longer care, if they want to pickup .50 Cal brass thats been out there long enought to be classed as historical artifacts and then brag about it on an open forum then they will get what ever they diserve from the feds.

People wake up! Good old boys are not the only people who read forums and no I am NOT paranoid!

I among many are considered to be a terroists: http://orangejuiceblog.com/2009/04/obamas-homeland-security-secretary-thinks-veterans-are-terrorists/

I am on the US Customs watch lists and go throuugh secondary searchs; My crime? I brought a Pork Chop and a Alvacado back from Mexico, the pockchop ws frozen in the bottom of the freazer in my MH and had been there at least 6 months and the alvadaco was rotten and in the trash.

I am on offical warning by local state land guy that my next time on state land I will be arrested and charged, snowbirds camp all winter on it without any hassle, I just cross through.

I got a FS ticket for parking on the grass along side a FS road while directly across from me loggers were draining oil on the ground and throwing trash everywhere.

Paranoid? Not me !!

Max

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Hi Gilaoro, no you are not paranoid... when they are really looking at you.

I sent in a simple federal FOIA request on a firearms report and holy crap next day I get an e-mail from Dept of Homeland Security. The day after a get a second one from DHS. A week later I get one from an FBI section head in DC. I responded politely to each of their requests. A month later I get a copy of the report I requested marked "not for public release". When the government starts to "fear" it's own citizens it's time to smack them up behind their head.

Keep Smiling... :cigar:

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Awhile back Reno Chris posted some great information to the forums on the Antiquities Act which defined a time-line of sorts of what could be considered a historic artifact and what is just plain trash, bullets, shell casings, bottles etc. I may need to revist his new book and see if this was discussed, I'm sure it was but I haven't got there yet.

This bothers me and I agree with Sawmill in that these citations should not be initially paid without further input from a knowlegable legal beagle.

I just pulled this link down from the NP service on the net but this cold I currently have is telling me to hit the pillow.....

http://www.nps.gov/history/archeology/sites/antiquities/about.htm

Gary

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Did anyone attend any of the Coronado NF planning meetings???? Wednesday the 3rd was the important one for Greaterville, but there are few left if you missed the first ones. Coronado NF planning meetings

Here's a link to the plan draft; http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coronado/plan-revision/documents/DraftForestPlan/Coronado_WorkingDraftForestPlan_March2010-Black&WhiteMaps.pdf

Notice how far down the contents list you have to go to get to anything related to multi Use, probably not a mistake. Later...Jim P.

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I totally agree, these forest service rangers need to be challenged in court. Don't just pay the fine. Let a judge hear it and its very likely to get thrown out. FS Rangers that act like the one that wrote this citation should find another line of work. Paying the fine only encourages them to continue their illegal bullying tactics.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Al, The Officers name and ID# should be on the citation.............Sound like this guy had a burr under his saddle or the badge is to heavy for him......& this comes from a retired Law Enforcment Officer. It seems common since is no longer a requirment for some Law Enforcment and PUBLIC land managment agencys.......Idahi Al

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  • 2 years later...

Al,

After reading all of this I would definitely ask for a court date and let the judge be the judge of any wrong doings. $750 is too much to give away IMO.

GL!

Rim

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All of this makes for interesting reading. Seems like we need to carry a law library in our rigs to educate and enlighten certain FS employees.

What are everyone's thoughts on going through old (possibly historic) lode mine tailings and dump piles with a detector?. Could these sites be designated as historic? And therefore require a permit to work? I wonder who makes the determination if a mine site is of historical significance?

Stan

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This is why, if a current GPAA member on club claims, you are supposed to carry your mining guide.

In the front or back of each state's respective section is the permit needed for mineral retrieval from that state's claims, or instructions regarding same.

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ok hope this helps historical articfacts between 1750 and roughy 1950 that they look out for<<<<< yes trash old bullets cans and so on in our small western history i cought some of that from our work site 3 weeks ago we are working on federal public land it is crazy and all money wasted for protecting trash.....our county dump would have to be consider historical by them dates lmao

other items older then that are considered different usually indain or somthing else before americans move out west

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