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Beginning of the End of Idaho Dredging

Terry Soloman

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An old raising gang foreman when I was a young steel erector once told me, " If 'if's' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, then we'd all have a Christmas party!"....This is a proposal at this stage...N. Idaho is the location of my claims, and I am concerned. That said, I've fired off heads up notices to several who sell equipment and claims in the area, hoping to see a show of public disdain for this measure. Time WILL tell, though...nuthin' but a bummer, methinks..the remoteness of my piec of ground makes me a little less worried, but only a little.. I don't think they'll spend the money to helicopter in a Ranger team to stop me or anything, but this will complicate things.....

Does anyone know the outcome from yesterdy's hearing for the Nez Perce?

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As Pyrate says; I don't think they can find me at my spot in Idaho, beside that I have neighabors up their that the law just would not rather have contact with, they even have a radio code # for them that means " Crazys, leave alone if at all possible".

The FS operates mainly with volenteers and they can not do lawenforcement and they don't have enought to enforece the campgrounds must less the back country.

The joke was on me, I asked the local deputy sheriff to come up and inspect my MH for a DMV requirement. He gave me a funny look and said "Sure", and never showed up, I went to the office and asked the nice lady dispacher the same request and got the same answer and same funny look.

Later after I got better aquainted with some of the people that live at the end of those roads posted "keep out" and more that the resident a while before had shot the sheriffs car all to hell with a mini-14, they got him and his PU and rifle but hes out on probation and like everybody back in the woods up there and has more guns and they avoid them when possible and I was one of 'Them" by association.


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No Terry you are way wrong! According to many, dredging is coming back to California very soon! So thewre is no way our wonderful Government is going to take it away in Idaho.... :hahaha:

Yeah, well all of our mineral rights will be going to the highest bidder. Put tape on your eyes and learn Chinese.

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Note: Don't any of you think about coming up to BC, it's no better up here. :aw-shucks:


Shame on you jjbond....Trying to save all the gold for yourself :hahaha: :hahaha: :evil1:

:ROFL: wonderer

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I gave them my opinion without an accompanying rant. I stated my rights under various mining acts, but focused on the unfair burden imposed on actual small miners by the distance limitation. Many claims in the area where mine reside have very limited amounts of creek access; several hundered feet at best...SInce the bulk of said proposal has a 'first come first served' tone, thosee with the most monies and free time can access first, prohhibiting others from using their claim. In a specific instance applying to myself, some tourist can use a GPAA claim near me, and by the 800 foot rule, I'd be unable to dredge my own claim...Not fair to he who pays the required assessments....And on my remote claim, someone up or downstream would have the same affect..I also pointed out that there are no fish spawning on my claims, (just mosquito's,eh?)

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Hi PYRATE, that's OK, one proposal in congress would limit "prospecting" to only professional geologists. That would really damper your efforts and 99% of todays prospectors nationwide. It's just more gov't control, telling people how to live. Isn't this socialized gov't control over all citizens just a beautiful thing to behold (not).

Observation: EPA and Army Corps of Engineers have more than a few studies and reports stating that most dredging is not damaging to the environment. One EPA report I read a few years ago even stated small scale suction dredging is beneficial to environment because it improves water quality by removing heavy metals and loosened up sediment bound gravels improving fish spawning areas. Do these EPA reports and studies ever make it into federal or State court to counter EPA lunatics with questionable "professional opinion"???

Keep Smiling... :cigar:

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Yes--introduced many times over the years. On Ab bill I copied 30+ pages of info from EPA,bio studies on mercury and fish,and sent the bundles to all senate committee members. When asked on the floor during a senate hearing the scum sucking dogs said and I quote--WHAT INFORMATION?? WE READ NOTHING--ya right just stuffed them pockets fulla casino cash and the game is on--over really-John :stupidrb:

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It would apprear that Hoser and I are the only ones that realize this has ZERO, nada, nothing to do about fish......... It's the indians using their new found wealth out to get dredgers! Started in the Klamath basin with just a small group.........As soon as Arnold got the additional cash he wanted from Indian casinos, was when we had zero chances against the tribes.

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Hi El Dorado, yep I understand the issue somewhat. They want to kill off all the dredgers... but the bullets they use in court are "clean water" and damage to "fish habitat". Seems constant press and court determinations citing benefits to cleaner water and improved fish habitat by dredgers might help a little. Maybe I'm wrong in which case don't even mention those EPA and Corps supportive studies and reports. But, Somehow that seems counter intuitive.

Good Luck and Keep Smiling... :cigar:

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This strategy was posted on another forum, by "Overtheedge" I think he is spot on when trying to fight the environuts out to take our rights away!!!


"I was going to stay out of this rant, but from all indications I mislaid my common-sense.

For several years I was among the bureaucrats. The one commonality is dependable funding. Every problem generates an additional funding argument.

Example: I was in the ops-center for the Exxon-Valdez oil spill. I listened to Ak DEC gleefully proclaim that they no longer would have a small budget.

It is the same for all agencies. Problem = funding.

The only practical course of action that will stand a chance of reversing this trend is to use the same tactics the environmentalists use. In our case, we can use actual science to back up our claims.

#1 Loudly and publicly proclaim that the environmentalists and EPA want to preserve the mercury problem. As long as the problem continues, the environmental groups have an emotional argument to maintain thier revenue stream and EPA gets additional funding to study the problem. Placer mining will remove the mercury and reduce funding. We must be willing to prove it.

#2 Continue to shout it from the rooftops until the media picks it up.

#3 Once media starts to report it, drag out overwhelming proof that we remove the mercury.

#4 Continue to hammer on the funding issue and the unwillingness for the eco-nuts and EPA to accept the proof of mercury abatement provided free of cost to the public by placer mining. Emphasize the drain of public revenue that the EPA is attempting to increase by maintaining the mercury problem rather than eliminate it at the lowest costs to the public.

#5 Once the media gets on a roll, the public will change their opinion.


Caution: the following will irritate many people. Do not continue reading if you are easily offended. You have been warned.


People are not well schooled in matters of science. A good emotional argument will sway the majority of people. Fear is the most effective of all mechanisms to manipulate these people. People are herd animals. Because of this, you must appeal to the herd mentality. Within each herd, there are a few spokesmen who will attack anyone outside the herd-think. These spokemen lack the scientific knowledge to argue the science, but will trot out and endless litany of their qualifications. (Remember: appeal to the masses.)

The trick to dealing with them is NEVER ARGUE WITHOUT THE MEDIA PRESENT and always stick to the science. You must ridicule their lack of scientific knowledge. Never give them any credit for anything; to do so increases their stature. ALWAYS ATTACK THEIR USE OF MONEY; it is all about the money.

Politicians are not your friend. If they parrot your arguments, don't screw with them. If they say nothing or maintain the eco-nut argument, attack their lack of scientific knowledge and their willingness to waste public monies. Never stop until they are unemployed.

The game is money and power. It has its own playbook and you better learn the rules. You play nice only when it is advantageous. Usually it isn't. Propaganda works. Never credit the opposition, never!The rules demand overwhelming force. Never enter the argument alone; take plenty of back-up that has their argument down pat. Never stop attacking the message and those who argue it. Stick to the argument and only bring in personalities when it deals with basis of the argument. You can attack their qualifications and should.

Go after the most verbal first. Seperate them from the herd. Ridicule their argument and use the science as your weapon. When one of their cohorts jumps in, have one of your back-ups do the same to the cohort. Nobody can stand up to ridicule in the public forum. Stick to the science and their lack of the scientific knowledge required to eliminate the problem.

When an action to eliminate the problem exists, placer mining as a means to remove mercury, always attack the need for a study. Ridicule it as a waste of public monies. Emphasize the current public debt and their willingness to add to it.

Emphasize the evidence that placer mining removes the mercury and studies remove money from your pocket.


Or, we can just keep whining and let them have their way. How do I know the above works? I read history.

If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.

You do what works. Nice is NOT in their playbook and so far they are winning. "

End Quote


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Been there done that-The Western Mining Council did it for over 45 years till huge clubs and 'ACTIVISTS-(PAID PROTAGONISTS) stepped in and killed miners rights and fed the populas the poison pill-fall into our comforting arms-we have claims and will spoon feed you and protect you. In 7 short years the work of 45 years by 100,000's a miners is DEAD--CASINO $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ rules the day in a court or legislature--John :*&$*(:

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