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OK to detect on unmarked claim?


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Hey everyone, I'm new here and to the word of nugget shooting. I have been prospecting for some time but always wondered about the laws here in AZ. I have over time worked areas that I just found out are and have been claimed but unmarked. Knowing now how to determine ownership at home on the computer I was wondering what others do when driving though an area and just want to jump out and detect. If an area is unmarked is it acceptable to test the area out if you know its not privately owned property?

Thanks

Tucpinz

Also Looking for a detecting partner in Tucson. PM me

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No it is not OK to detect or prospect on any valid

claim marked or unmarked without permission.

The federal government has spent millions of dollars

to make claim information available to the public. It

is your duty to know where you are before detecting or

prospecting.

Markers and monuments get destroyed or removed all the

time. That doesn't make a claim invalid,or give the public

an excuse for mineral trespass. You can still be prosecuted

marked or not.

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Should'nt it be the responciability of the claim owners to clearly mark their claims and to occasionally check to see that they are still in place---as far as I'm concerned if you all want people to stay off them then mark themrolleye0012[1].gif just my twocents[1].gif ---Mike C...ph34r2.gif

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I guess if you don't want to do your homework you can beg for the judge's forgiveness. As has been said, claim markers disappear or fall down for a variety of reasons but the valid mineral claim which someone owns does not.

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I would never detect on a VALID claim without permission - That being said, you need to arm yourself with very good and up-to-date information. Know the mining claim laws! Posts and signs aren't the only things that make a claim legal - Documentation and timely filing of payments are also part of the equation. Before I detect an area that has some claims on it that are marked or unmarked, I check with the BLM and ALSO the County Auditors' office. I have encountered several locations that had claim markers not knowing if they had lapsed or were still valid. Since I now carry the BLM and Auditor records where I detect, I know now which ones are legal to hunt on. I have lost claims over legal technicalities, as well as gained a few. One specifically was over improper/missing corner markers. If you are unsure, check the records/laws - If it's claimed and VALID, give the owner a call and ask permission, it's worked for me in the past...

Markers are a big part of having a legal claim. so is a discovery post. If the claim is unmarked, it may be patented - check to see the land status. If the markers are missing, notify the claim owner, they would appreciate that. Also check to see if it has lapsed at the BLM. If it has lapsed I would detect it in a heartbeat. Missing claim markers... make sure you are checking far and wide... I think claims can be pretty large in AZ. I personally would detect a claim without markers, unless the markers are not specifically required by law for a legal claim. my two cents...

If I'm wrong, I'm sure plenty of good folks will point it out :)

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Good one slim! and all the other posts as well...Chris why not use white PVC pipe,cemented at the bottom?..Guess it's O.K. to walk up to houses and try the front door handles,not locked or no sign reading private residence..come on in.In this town you'd get your butt whipped or you'd be digging pellets out of your arse for a week,and by the way YES,Yes..the Rottweiler would still be latched onto your leg....Dave.

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Thanks for all the reply's as with anything education is the key to success. Like I said I recently found out how to determine ownership and have been using that to my advantage and have also increased my potential areas. Having looked around on the net and I found little info reguarding this matter but most people just post "stay off unmarked claims" .

Well maybe this post will help others out.

For beginners:

The LR2000 system is a good starting point.

Also use your online county assessors for ownership info.

Again thanks for the info.

Tucpinz

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Guest bedrock bob

Good one slim! and all the other posts as well...Chris why not use white PVC pipe,cemented at the bottom?..Guess it's O.K. to walk up to houses and try the front door handles,not locked or no sign reading private residence..come on in.In this town you'd get your butt whipped or you'd be digging pellets out of your arse for a week,and by the way YES,Yes..the Rottweiler would still be latched onto your leg....Dave.

We have to remember that public land is NOT private property. It is definitely not O.K. to prospect on a valid mining claim whether or not the markers are up, granted. But aside of prospecting I can "try the front door handles" on any public land claim out there that does not have equipemnt and machinery on it. I can camp, hunt, graze a calf, fish, and do any darn thing I want BESIDES prospect (with the proper permitting if needed). I can even survey the workings and GPS the diggings if I want to, and map and measure each and every pile of dirt I believe.

I have heard on this forum that "claims represent private property" but that is a stretch of the usual understanding of "Private Property". I am not going to argue that the mineral estate is actualy private property (well, I might argue that, it is not 100% true by definition) but if anyone offers to whip my butt, shoot me with a shotgun, or sick the rottweiller on me while I am standing on public property (whether claimed or not) they are facing some serious legal problems. Even if I was prospecting a claim owner still does not have the right to get violent or abusive with anyone.

In my neck of the woods you wont have any problems with people getting crazy if they catch you on their claims. They will sternly inform you, and ask you to leave. They just might let you carry on if you are responsible and not too pushy about things. If you make a habit of hygrading after they ask you not to THEN you might get your fanny stomped or get a visit from the Sheriff. That might not be the way it is in a more popular gold bearing area but that is the way it usually works around here.

Bedrock Bob

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We have to remember that public land is NOT private property. It is definitely not O.K. to prospect on a valid mining claim whether or not the markers are up, granted. But aside of prospecting I can "try the front door handles" on any public land claim out there that does not have equipemnt and machinery on it. I can camp, hunt, graze a calf, fish, and do any darn thing I want BESIDES prospect (with the proper permitting if needed). I can even survey the workings and GPS the diggings if I want to, and map and measure each and every pile of dirt I believe.

I have heard on this forum that "claims represent private property" but that is a stretch of the usual understanding of "Private Property". I am not going to argue that the mineral estate is actualy private property (well, I might argue that, it is not 100% true by definition) but if anyone offers to whip my butt, shoot me with a shotgun, or sick the rottweiller on me while I am standing on public property (whether claimed or not) they are facing some serious legal problems. Even if I was prospecting a claim owner still does not have the right to get violent or abusive with anyone.

In my neck of the woods you wont have any problems with people getting crazy if they catch you on their claims. They will sternly inform you, and ask you to leave. They just might let you carry on if you are responsible and not too pushy about things. If you make a habit of hygrading after they ask you not to THEN you might get your fanny stomped or get a visit from the Sheriff. That might not be the way it is in a more popular gold bearing area but that is the way it usually works around here.

Bedrock Bob

And if some one says it ok to dig some dirt on a claim , make darn sure it belongs to them!!!

:inocent:

:yuk-yuk:

:thumbsupanim

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Here in AZ up to 6 months in jail and $2,500.00 basically.

Arizona Revised Statues Title 13 - Criminal Code - 13-1504. Criminal trespass in the first degree; classification

A. A person commits criminal trespass in the first degree by knowingly: (Jumped to number 4)

4. Entering unlawfully on real property that is subject to a valid mineral claim or lease with the intent to hold, work, take or explore for minerals on the claim or lease.

B. Criminal trespass in the first degree under subsection A, paragraph 2, 3 or 4 is a class 1 misdemeanor. (Jumped to class 1 misdemeanor)

13-707. Misdemeanors; sentencing

A. A sentence of imprisonment for a misdemeanor shall be for a definite term to be served other than a place within custody of the state department of corrections. The court shall fix the term of imprisonment within the following maximum limitations:

1. For a class 1 misdemeanor, six months.

13-802. Fines for misdemeanors

A. A sentence to pay a fine for a class 1 misdemeanor shall be a sentence to pay an amount, fixed by the court, not more than two thousand five hundred dollars.

Here is the link to look up the complete laws for all trespass, sentences, fines and other punishment stipulations.

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That's all the facts you need folks. Join a club with claims and maps or do the research necessary before you head out there to find gold or other valuable minerals. Know where you are at all times.

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Research, research, research!

I remember in the early eighties how people would prospect from a desk in the BLM Office, and blanket-claim entire areas with NO INTENTION of ever actually marking their claims on the ground. Most of them were speculators who were going to resell the claims to someone who might actually turn a spade of dirt. To those of you who have been around for a while, you KNOW who those people are. Even though filing fees have gone up, there's still a few of them around. Then there's the guys who mark their claim on the ground but, have no idea how to read OR WRITE a legal description using the Public Lands Survey system, and whose FILED claim ends up at least six miles away, in another Township or Range. They then spend a lot of their free time running off people at gunpoint from the claims that they DON'T have title to. Next you get the fools that file claims WITHOUT ever checking to see if someone else already HAS a valid existing claim there. These special individuals also like to run off legitamate claim owners at gunpoint while waving their papers. Those idiots are direct cousins to the poor simple boobs that think that because they have an UNPATENTED claim, they can keep out or run off, anyone who is NOT prospecting or mining. They missed that bit about minerals, and the fact that the Forest Service or the BLM may lease the same ground to someone else for grazing or timbering. Then there's the general public who may want to hunt, fish, camp, horseback ride, fourwheel, mountainbike, cut firewood, or just pass through on their way elsewhere while NOT engaging in any form of mining. Yeah, and there's still a bunch of special people from the last two catagories out there, so until they're drafted for the Special Olympics, do your research and be careful out in the field. Carry a camera and have the Sheriff's number on speed-dial, brandishing is a serious offense. The ones who are actually willing to shoot, aim as well as they file claims. Also, I have found that serving a summons to appear at a BLM or Forest Service office usually results in a government dozer removing any unapproved locked gates with a week. Respect other peoples legitamate claims and steer newbies to join clubs or to prospect unclaimed areas. If you're honest in your dealings, others will be honest in their dealings with you.

Own the gold, don't let the gold own you.

Ben

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Guest bedrock bob

Research, research, research!

I remember in the early eighties how people would prospect from a desk in the BLM Office, and blanket-claim entire areas with NO INTENTION of ever actually marking their claims on the ground. Most of them were speculators who were going to resell the claims to someone who might actually turn a spade of dirt. To those of you who have been around for a while, you KNOW who those people are. Even though filing fees have gone up, there's still a few of them around. Then there's the guys who mark their claim on the ground but, have no idea how to read OR WRITE a legal description using the Public Lands Survey system, and whose FILED claim ends up at least six miles away, in another Township or Range. They then spend a lot of their free time running off people at gunpoint from the claims that they DON'T have title to. Next you get the fools that file claims WITHOUT ever checking to see if someone else already HAS a valid existing claim there. These special individuals also like to run off legitamate claim owners at gunpoint while waving their papers. Those idiots are direct cousins to the poor simple boobs that think that because they have an UNPATENTED claim, they can keep out or run off, anyone who is NOT prospecting or mining. They missed that bit about minerals, and the fact that the Forest Service or the BLM may lease the same ground to someone else for grazing or timbering. Then there's the general public who may want to hunt, fish, camp, horseback ride, fourwheel, mountainbike, cut firewood, or just pass through on their way elsewhere while NOT engaging in any form of mining. Yeah, and there's still a bunch of special people from the last two catagories out there, so until they're drafted for the Special Olympics, do your research and be careful out in the field. Carry a camera and have the Sheriff's number on speed-dial, brandishing is a serious offense. The ones who are actually willing to shoot, aim as well as they file claims. Also, I have found that serving a summons to appear at a BLM or Forest Service office usually results in a government dozer removing any unapproved locked gates with a week. Respect other peoples legitamate claims and steer newbies to join clubs or to prospect unclaimed areas. If you're honest in your dealings, others will be honest in their dealings with you.

Own the gold, don't let the gold own you.

Ben

You are a poet Benito...It brings a tear to my eye! As if it was divinely inspired! GOOD FORM MAN!!! :wubu: :wubu:

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thumbsupsmileyanim.gif Regmaglitch's reply is elegant truth, should be pinned because this question is asked regularly in different words.

Max

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Hi Guys,

Just one more thing. I've heard a few people say that a given claim "must" be valid, because the BLM filed it. That is incredibly funny and truly ingnorant of reality. Having spent a goodly amount of time there, I can honestly say that as long as you paid the filing fee, they would file, timedate, and stamp your birth certificate or anything else you decided to hand them. More importantly, it is NOT their job to determine which claims are valid, and which ones aren't anyway. That would be a civil matter. So you see, they'll happily accept the claim filings of dozens of different people for the same 20 acres of dirt. The individual with the EARLIEST, VALID, UP-TO-DATE filing will still be the rightful claimholder, regardless of the fact that a BLM clerk gave you a reciept for your filing fees. Avoid trouble and heartbreak. Research, research, research!

Ben

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Can anybody suggest a easy way to get GPS coordinate for claim boundry, so one can marked the line on a gps unit and not entered the forbidden zone?

More Au to y'all

Robert

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Guest bedrock bob

Can anybody suggest a easy way to get GPS coordinate for claim boundry, so one can marked the line on a gps unit and not entered the forbidden zone?

More Au to y'all

Robert

I use a map scale and draw the claims in an area on a topo map. Each claim is sketched in and highlighted. Any "open" ground (proven by research)I can readily see, and then I take the map scale and find the important lat and lon measurements to enter on a GPS.

I have the National Geographic mapping program and you can get a rough idea of GPS coordinates, but it is not as accurate as drawing it in on the hard copy maps. It'll get you close enough in most cases though. Close enough to go and walk it anyway.

That is how I do it.

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