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Holbrook 57g and tiny Kamacite-Iron frag


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Hey All, Finally got around to posting pics from earlier this year. On June 28, 2009 went to Holbrook with my old friend Dan and new friend Marty both from Flagstaff. Both have been hunting for gold over the last year, and Marty has been gold hunting many for years, dry washer etc.. Both were way up for a meteorite hunt at Holbrook and we each had a 3/4 X 2 inch cylinder neodynium magnets on a stick. It was about 101 F that day. We each found 1 to 2 that fit on dime, and some micros. After about 5 1/2 hours I came across a dark round rock. I hit it with the magnet, nothing, nada, zip, took a few steps away, and went back, picked it up, looked at it, and said "it's way too big", it looked like desert varnish on orange-yellow sandstone, and dropped it. Walked away a few more steps, half cooked, thinking how does it go "parked pet pills cars in heat"#?#, then I thought, how often a patina on sandstone? So I went back look at it under the lenses, got it to move a little with the magnet in my hand, and thought probably not, but darn if I'm going to walk back a forth agian, so I GPSed- photo - baged it, a headed on. I was looking at the cash at home, all but forgot it, I figured I'd take it out, look it over, a through it in the meteorwrongs pile out the front door. Well darn, holy smokes!! Dan and Marty are hooked now, they have aready been out hunting since then. New rule for Holbrook big dark not very magnetic, bag it anyway. The second set of pic is from a tiny (0.3 gram) I think, Kamacite burn frag from likely a privious fall found at a dry lake bed with my GB-II, down about 1/2 inch in the dried mud. At first I thought it was a frag of an old time square nail, but too small, seems like burnish tips and "glassy", and the last pic has the stone-chondrule apperance. It still could be a frag off a nail though. See Ya Out There, Clifton (if I ever get my trannie fixed)

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Hi Ruben, Ya noticed it, but, I think it's a plageoclase inclusion, not quartz. Tomorrow I'll post some pics of some bigger 30-70g Holbrooks that are althenticated, that look as this one. The white interior, and remnent chondrule outlines are difficult to see in pics, easier to see with a magnifier. Clifton

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Hi Ruben, Ya noticed it, but, I think it's a plageoclase inclusion, not quartz. Tomorrow I'll post some pics of some bigger 30-70g Holbrooks that are althenticated, that look as this one. The white interior, and remnent chondrule outlines are difficult to see in pics, easier to see with a magnifier. Clifton

Hi,

I hate doing this, but I guess I should have said, "Hey Moondog that isn't a meteorite." lol

Please don't get upset but there is a lot more wrong with your rock than just the fact that there is quartz present. It doesn't look like a Holbrook in any way and I have found hundreds. Well actually it doesn't look like any meteorite in any way. No fusion crust, no rust spots, no obvious chondrules and the stress fractures look terrestrial. Sorry but it isn't a meteorite.

Plus all Holbrook meteorites stick to a magnet (the small ones jump to the magnet)heck that's how we pick them up.

Really, I wouldn't lie to you, it's not a meteorite.

I won't say anymore though, I've already said plenty......

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Ok, sorry about this (as I said I would say no more,)

Just one picture of about a hundred small individuals and fragments I found in just the last two years. The largest one is 2o grams. I've hunted Holbrook for 12 years but sold all the early finds.

Not the best picture but zoom it in and see. Your's should be weathered about the same as these as they were all found recently - just like yours.

NOTICE, Not one with plagioclast inclutions. Not saying some don't have them, just that it would be odd to find.

See how obvious a Holbrook meteorite is to I.D. - very obvious rust spots, cracks, fusion crust, white interior.

Please don't think I'm picking on you.

I just don't want others to think they have a meteorite when they don't. That's how we end up with guys selling slag on ebay. However, I'm not saying that you would do that.

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Hey Ruben, No worries. Anyway, thought I clear upper a few things I said. It is magnetic, I got it to flop around in my hand, and I can pull it arround on a table top, it just won't hold it own weight. There are red spots on this guy see bottom of pic 4. Sure seems to have a fusion crust, although worn through in several places. Maybe the following pics will help. Anyways, I cut it next weekend, and post it. I'll eat a big slice of crow pie if it doesn't turn out then. In defence of my position, I have included several pics of the interior at 100X. There is probably too many pics, but for these shallow holes the depth of field is so small, I seem to get only parts in focus at a time. Tomorrow I'll post some of the bigger Holbrook meteorite pics I mentioned in my previous post. It will be educational at the least. Clifton

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Ruben, I'm posting some Holbrook Pic biggies and some smaller, and a couple of big pure lust PICs. Far as I know the pics are all public domain. I think you will notice that, at least on some of these pics, red spots are not all that apparent as the crust gets darker. Also the devets in the lower left of the 76 grammer (that maybe cut in half to 38 grams) looks simmilar to the "rock" I have. Also, the devit under Silver Dog Doug's index finger to the left looks alot like the devit holes in my "rock". Anyway, can't hardly wait for the weekend to cut it. Clifton

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Ruben, I'm posting some Holbrook Pic biggies and some smaller, and a couple of big pure lust PICs. Far as I know the pics are all public domain. I think you will notice that, at least on some of these pics, red spots are not all that apparent as the crust gets darker. Also the devets in the lower left of the 76 grammer (that maybe cut in half to 38 grams) looks simmilar to the "rock" I have. Also, the devit under Silver Dog Doug's index finger to the left looks alot like the devit holes in my "rock". Anyway, can't hardly wait for the weekend to cut it. Clifton

Yes, Yes, I've seen all of these and unless you forget I am at ASU about once a week where they have some of the finest Holbrook are on display. What you fail to mention is that most of the photos you posted are of meteorites that were picked up over 90 years ago. So they do look different and they shouldn't have rust spots or too many cracks. Your stone was found nearly 100 years after the fall. It should look like the ones I posted. Here is a picture of a nice 42 gram stone Mike Morgan found while hunting with me this year- compare your rock to his.

Your's is simply NOT a meteorite of any kind.....sorry

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Hi Moondog and Ruben

I totally agree with Ruben on this. The piece you found is the common magnetite that abounds along the little colorado river. Ruben the Meteorite Men producers have called me and I will send them a copy of my gold basin hunting video when I find it. It has several clips of Jim and Twink and his dog Cristy out there hunting. I wouldn't give them any guarentees on my video skills but I did advise them I was the prettiest of the bunch !! Happy Huntin John B.

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Hi Moondog and Ruben

I totally agree with Ruben on this. The piece you found is the common magnetite that abounds along the little colorado river. Ruben the Meteorite Men producers have called me and I will send them a copy of my gold basin hunting video when I find it. It has several clips of Jim and Twink and his dog Cristy out there hunting. I wouldn't give them any guarentees on my video skills but I did advise them I was the prettiest of the bunch !! Happy Huntin John B.

Thanks John,

I talked to them today too and they are very appreciative! I don't think it can be overstated how much You, Twink and Jim did for me and for the meteorite community in general. I'm not sure exactly what they will do with it, but even a small tribute to all the work you guys did would be nice.

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Ruben; you can lead them to the Fountain of Knowledge...but you can't make them drink...there are less and less knowledgible people on these forums, please don't go away...

Mr B...you shine like an unpolished diamond, as always...

Goldman...darn nice piece, it was good to see it again!

fred

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Hi Fredmason, Yea I hope Ruben doesn't go away. His posts, training videos, and opinions are invaluable on this forum. I can see that it may get tedious dealing with new guys like me. Anyway, I have well considered and appreciate the opinions and pics of Rubin, Mr. B, and Goldmanmike, and I have busied myself looking up Holbrook pics and new somewhat more palatable recipes for crow pie. I realized that my position on this "rock" ain't look'n so good, but I figure that it ain't over until the saw blade sings. I'll cut this "rock" on the weekend; then I post the cut pics and start eating if I need to. Clifton

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Hi Fredmason, Yea I hope Ruben doesn't go away. His posts, training videos, and opinions are invaluable on this forum. I can see that it may get tedious dealing with new guys like me. Anyway, I have well considered and appreciate the opinions and pics of Rubin, Mr. B, and Goldmanmike, and I have busied myself looking up Holbrook pics and new somewhat more palatable recipes for crow pie. I realized that my position on this "rock" ain't look'n so good, but I figure that it ain't over until the saw blade sings. I'll cut this "rock" on the weekend; then I post the cut pics and start eating if I need to. Clifton

Hey All,

Thanks Fred, but I have met Clifton (Moondog) and I know he is a cool guy - stubourn, but a good guy! However, it does get old sometimes, trying to help and not being believed. See, I have nothing to gain by making such "Matter of Fact" claims - as I did - if they are not true. I would end up looking pretty stupid.

Clifton, In this case it is an obvious meteorwrong and there is no need to cut it to be sure of that. It is fine to cut it, but only if you just want to see what it’s made of and not to rule it out as being a meteorite. IT IS NOT A METEORITE, that’s for sure.

Don’t be embarrassed or think you have to eat crow. We have all done it! I remember in 1998 trying to convince Bob Haag that my slag was a rare meteorite. He was right, it wasn’t – and the funny thing is – I found it a Holbrook!

Rock On!

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Guest bedrock bob

Hey, that crow is great stewed with some dumplings. It is really not that bad.

I dont know what the big deal is all about. There is no more "shame" in asking about a meteorwrong than there is in not having your expert opinion immediately taken as gospel.

Any student should know that they learn by virtue of their mistakes more so than by their successes. Any teacher must have patience to teach those with lesser knowledge, otherwise they are really not a teacher...just an expert.

And we all know where the term "expert" came from. It is a combination of "ex" as in "has been", and "spurt" as in "drip under pressure". Anyone with any experience to share has been there.

Bob

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Hi All, Well today I'm a drip under pressure, got my dunce hat on, and I'm eating crow pie, with dumplings, as Bedrock Bob suggested. Ruben et al. are right it's a 57g rock not a meteorite. Pics of the cut rock are below. Actually it's looks to be fossilized black an-oxic mud, rich in magnetite with a fine spray of hematite, with layers and inclusions of brown oxic mud. Looks like during it's time, it became a little altered and silicated (petrified) and the iron from the dark mud migrated into the brown mud forming rings around pre-existing silica sand or in silica. When the brown was-once-oxic mud is weathered to the surface of the rock, it is less cemented together than the black was-once mud, and the brown material leaves relatively faster than the black, generating a hole, with nothing left but white altered silica with rings of magnetite and an occasional shinny hematite. Well everythings fine in this story until, dummy, that would be me, picks up the rock and looks into the hole an sees lighter material with rings, thinking it's L6 matrix with chondrules. I'm sorry for wasting everyone time on this post. As for damage control, if you'all down loaded some of the pics, you might want to delete them or re-name them Holbrook rock or meteorwrong. As for this post it doesn't sseem like I can edit the name. I would like to to say Holbrook meteorwrong or rock. As for the fist pics of the rock on this post it would be great to re-name them as well. As Ruben mention earlier, it's important that these pics are not propagated, as people may use them to I.D. Holbrook meteorites and bring back meteorwrongs like I did. I will contact Bill Southern I guess, and see if something can be done about the pic names. If not, it maybe best to leave this post up for a few days, so some of the interested folks can see what happened, and then delete the entire post. Anyways, sorry for the trouble I caused, and for certain I'll be more careful next time. I'll keep this rock on a shelf were I can see it daily as a reminder.

Ruben - Thanks for your time reviewing this post. Actually we haven't met yet, but I look foward to it. I imagine it, you come into veiw out of a mirage on a dry lake bed, on your quad, with bandana in place, like Eastwood the intro to High Plains Drifter. See Ya Out There, Clifton

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Take it as a learning experance not a kick in the butt. Mistakes are good learning tools and the people on this forum will tell you the truth even if it hurts some feelings. Hope to see you out in the field some day.

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Hey All, Finally got around to posting pics from earlier this year. On June 28, 2009 went to Holbrook with my old friend Dan and new friend Marty both from Flagstaff. Both have been hunting for gold over the last year, and Marty has been gold hunting many for years, dry washer etc.. Both were way up for a meteorite hunt at Holbrook and we each had a 3/4 X 2 inch cylinder neodynium magnets on a stick. It was about 101 F that day. We each found 1 to 2 that fit on dime, and some micros. After about 5 1/2 hours I came across a dark round rock. I hit it with the magnet, nothing, nada, zip, took a few steps away, and went back, picked it up, looked at it, and said "it's way too big", it looked like desert varnish on orange-yellow sandstone, and dropped it. Walked away a few more steps, half cooked, thinking how does it go "parked pet pills cars in heat"#?#, then I thought, how often a patina on sandstone? So I went back look at it under the lenses, got it to move a little with the magnet in my hand, and thought probably not, but darn if I'm going to walk back a forth agian, so I GPSed- photo - baged it, a headed on. I was looking at the cash at home, all but forgot it, I figured I'd take it out, look it over, a through it in the meteorwrongs pile out the front door. Well darn, holy smokes!! Dan and Marty are hooked now, they have aready been out hunting since then. New rule for Holbrook big dark not very magnetic, bag it anyway. The second set of pic is from a tiny (0.3 gram) I think, Kamacite burn frag from likely a privious fall found at a dry lake bed with my GB-II, down about 1/2 inch in the dried mud. At first I thought it was a frag of an old time square nail, but too small, seems like burnish tips and "glassy", and the last pic has the stone-chondrule apperance. It still could be a frag off a nail though. See Ya Out There, Clifton (if I ever get my trannie fixed)

Moondog-

You need to get yourself a streak plate for testing iron minerals, which are often mistaken for meteorites. Go to a tile store and buy a 6 or 8 inch white tile. Use the unglazed back portion as the streak plate. If you have a red streak- that's usually hematite. A black streak usually indicates magnetite.

Steve

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