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dredging gone in Kali


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The question now is how long will they delay an impact reort and will it be biased anyway. It is after all.....California. Left of Left

I wonder if this was also a concession on Arnies part for other tings like the budget.

OK thats like 3 questions...sorry

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Yeah. They really stuck it to us. So sad. I really knew we were in trouble after sending the Guv an e-mail last week which expressly stated that SB 670 was urgency legislation (ie, passed by a two-thirds majority and becomes law effective immediately 12 days after it hits the Guv's desk if he doesn't veto it) when the Guv replied to our e-mail with a "canned" response that he had until October to decide whether to sign it. Bummer.

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Yeah. They really stuck it to us. So sad. I really knew we were in trouble after sending the Guv an e-mail last week which expressly stated that SB 670 was urgency legislation (ie, passed by a two-thirds majority and becomes law effective immediately 12 days after it hits the Guv's desk if he doesn't veto it) when the Guv replied to our e-mail with a "canned" response that he had until October to decide whether to sign it. Bummer.

At least you got a reply. I sent two emails when he hadn't signed the bill, and one today expressing my dismay at his dislike for prospectors and for bankrupting the state that now has little promise or future, unless you can contribute to his war chest as the Karuk's and all tree hugger's did to get this bill passed.

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This has nothing at all to do with the greenies or leftist politics... it is about the Karuk Indians vs. Dave Mack's new 49'r goons....... many of you are just jumping in here without knowing the history or the root cause of all this....

Each and every attack over the past 4 years on Dredging in California has been by the Karuk Indians via lawsuits, legislation from polititians under the influence of Indian money, etc....... It first started with the Karuk attempting to stop dredging on the Klamath and Salmon Rivers (where the New 49'rs have their claims). Each time they were defeated, they escalated the battle. Read Hoser John's post.POST

If you want to know what kind of leader the Karuks have he is Leif Hillman, a man who recently was convicted of viscously beating his girlfriend with an empty beer bottle....

You ask why the Karuks have it in for the New 49'rs........ They wanted to hold one of their religous ceremonies along the Klamath in one of their special spots. Just so happens 3 of Dave Mack's innner circle goons were dredging there. The Karuks asked them if they could refrain from Dredging for the 2-3 day period of the ceramony. Instead of honoring that request, they created as much of a disturbance as they possible could for the entire period of the ceremony....... Well, the Karuks were on the warpath after that. Prior to this, the relationship between the Indians and the Dredgers was shakey at best, with neither willing to capitulate. At my last count, the Karuks (a poor tribe) ended up being backed by at least 18 rather influential and wealthy (gaming) tribes giving them just about unlimited funds to carry this battle on for as long as needed or for however much $$ they may require. Supposedly in the name of the Salmon, a fish that has never once beed documented to harm even one fish while the indians killed as many as they pleased and fishermen took many also. Along the way they also recruited Trout unlimited in the battle because dredgers endanger/kill so many salmon.

So glad I sold one of my dredging claims and my dredge last spring!

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:innocent0002: Amen El D--I sold all my property in this anal retentive environutz state over 4 years ago-kept a couple a claims is all. PLEASE TELL ANYONE WITH KALIF CLAIMS TO CALL THE TAX ASSESSORS OFFICE AND HAVE THE TAXES APPEALED TO ZERO-no dredging makes them(and our dredges) virtually worthless like this states so called crooked arse government!! Arnies new phrase to the Karuk--I WANT IT IN THE BACK!!!! John :laught16:

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This has nothing at all to do with the greenies or leftist politics... it is about the Karuk Indians vs. Dave Mack's new 49'r goons....... many of you are just jumping in here without knowing the history or the root cause of all this....

Know your Foes: Dr. Peter Moyle, fishery scientist, stated under oath that dredging is deleterious to fish - “Suction dredging represents a chronic unnatural disturbance of natural habitats that are already likely to be stressed by other factors and can therefore have a negative impact on fishes that use the reach being dredged,” said Moyle. “Suction dredging, through a combination of disturbance of resident fish, alteration of substrates, and indirect effects on heavy human use of small areas, especially thermal refugia (side creeks), will further contribute to the decline of the fishes.”

The bill was supported by the Karuk tribe, California Coastkeeper Alliance, California Sportfishing Protection Alliance, California Tribal Business Alliance, California Trout, Clean Water Action, Friends of the River, Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen’s Associations, Planning and Conservation League, Ramona Band of Cahuilla, San Manuel Band of Mission Indians, Sierra Club California and Sierra Fund.

Watch in the future to see who goes to jail for accepting Indian Casino money!!! - Terry

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:confused0013: Well you know the dredgers are not killing the fish. During the hydralicing days the rivers were full of silt AND THEY SURVIVED! Everybody is against the dredgers here and using them as the scape goat. Maybe they should find out who is killing the fish, like fishermen and indians, is that not COMMON SENSE? But who listens to common sense these days. In the mean time here I sit dreaming of dredging.

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Terry. I and Hoser John have both been involved in this battle since the very beginning. You quoteing the oppositions false premise study does no good at all....... you know nothing of this battle except what you can read at the present. I once again ask you to read John's post in the political section... study after study after study has never found suction dredging harmfull to any fishery as long as the dredging operation was conducted within the regulations imposed by the current dredge permit issued by the California Department Fish and game. Those regulations all came about from a rather extensive EIR conducted to establish the regs. Our own Hoser John was at that time one of the very main forced behind all that.

You just do not know a single thing of what you speak... I know the enemy and have looked into their eyes many times

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Terry. I and Hoser John have both been involved in this battle since the very beginning. You quoteing the oppositions false premise study does no good at all....... you know nothing of this battle except what you can read at the present. I once again ask you to read John's post in the political section... study after study after study has never found suction dredging harmfull to any fishery as long as the dredging operation was conducted within the regulations imposed by the current dredge permit issued by the California Department Fish and game. Those regulations all came about from a rather extensive EIR conducted to establish the regs. Our own Hoser John was at that time one of the very main forced behind all that.

You just do not know a single thing of what you speak... I know the enemy and have looked into their eyes many times

Thank you for your opinion of what you believe I know - or in this case, don't know. :smrt1: I believe, we are on the same side and you need to take a deep breath, relax, :wink2: and re-read my posts on this subject. - Terry

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A link to an article from 2007.

http://www.northcoastjournal.com/083007/cover0830.html

I doubt that many of the small town communities will have enforcement for this new law. Places like Downieville rely on the dredgers to buy food and groceries in town. Other mountain communities that have opposed this bill will hopefully be leniant to us. It will be interesting to see and hear from the people who plan to saty in the water. I will be in the water more this summer. Screw em'!

Cheers,

Matt

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Matt... that is the attitude I hope that many more will take. The enforcement of this new absurd law will be minimal at best. Just wait till they try to enforce it on the wrong person and get a giant lawsuit for discrimination against a minority(dredgers).

Terry, I read and reread your post and it shows me no knowledge of the situation regarding dredging in California.

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Terry, I read and reread your post and it shows me no knowledge of the situation regarding dredging in California.

I never copped to being all-knowing E. My post was just informational. - Terry

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Just to show how absurd this rule is, the Sacramento River has one of the worse salmon returns in its history and there hasn't been any dredging allowed for over 20 years. Some of the other rivers such as the Feather and Yuba don't have any salmon. There are dams on those rivers. So why close them to dredging? So much for common sense. Goldbug Ron

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Hello,

My name is Rob, and my partner and I have invented a new type of dredge that we affectionately call the "ClaimJumper". We have a US patent pending, and we "were" preparing to start taking orders beyond the few people that have viewed it in action. I've attached a photo.

However, that is not the point of my post, I mention this only to display our ingenuity and motivation.

We are now working on a temporary 'hotfix', as well as a permanent modification to conventional dredges so that people like us may continue our hobby and way of life. This new legislation is specific to suction/vaccum nozzles, yet does not appear to prevent motorized sluicing such as highbanking. Currently, the legislature failed to prohibit instream 'shoveling'.

For example, prospectors may still use a shovel to dig loose gravel within a stream's subsurface, and empty that shovel load into the sluicebox, highbanker, or pan. Nor does there appear to be a prohibition on the use of a pump to pull water into the sluicebox, so long as the venturi does not have a suction hose and nozzle attached or within 100 yards of the closed river/stream. The keyword to remember here is "dredge". Once the suction nozzle is removed it is no longer a 'dredge', but instead a floating sluicingbox.

Our immediate 'hotfix' will be employed this weekend, and we hope to have contact with the authorities during it's use. We will have cameras ready with the hopeful outcome of the Warden walking away while we continue to prospect using our modified and former dredge that we have yet to name.

The permanent modification will depend on the reactions of any contact with the authorities. However, we are designing a more complicated modification to the suction hose so that it can no longer be legally classifed as a suction nozzle, yet still be able to draw gravel into the sluicebox.

Suggestions and comments are gladly welcome.

Rob

post-22440-1249968067_thumb.jpg

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I just got the call yesterday from the ACLU(American Cival Liberties Union) They insist the constitution does not guarantee you a job as their final position on SB670. What ever happened to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness was my last question?? It seems ifn' your black, brown,yellow,queer or an illegal you get all protection anymore?? The white bust your @$$ miner is now qualified as an endangered species now. ARNIES NEW MANTRA TO THE KARUK AND ENVIRONUTZ IS--GIVE IT TO ME IN THE BACK--MINE IS --HOW DO YA COOK A KARUK?? SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY AS POSSIBLE-John :angry-smiley-010:

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CALIFORNIA?? Is that the same state that won't let hound hunters hunt the endangered Mtn Lions??

Have no doubt the mighty left strikes again!

Robb

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Yo All...I lived alongside the Karuks for a quarter century in Northern CA...They, as a group, are the sorriest excuses for humans that ever existed...If not for welfare they'd have died off a long time ago...They certainly do not represent the native american population with any honor or dignity...My family is part Choctaw and these Karuk dogs are the lowest of the low...In this case they are being used by the Sierra Club and their ilk...It is true that Dave McKracken didn't do any one any favors with some of the things he's done, but he seems to have played into the hands of the greenies who are much better financed than him...Sierra Club probably bought off the entire Karuk tribe for a cold pack and a bottle of Four Roses whiskey...Sad...Cheers, but not, Unc

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:twocents: I get my nasty temper from the cherokee/irish/gypsy mix myself. The pathetic washoe at lake lahonton outta reno got ALL NEW HOMES( beautiful moder energy efficent/solar homes) and within a year or so nothing but squalor--burned out hulks a cars,frigs,trash,broken windows and holes all the way through the walls with woodstoves poking out. Shameful waste a cash on a band a rummy dummies. You can't help any man who refuses to help himself-John

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