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Hello all

For the benefit to the new people on the forum it think its necessary to clear up a few points that are going on in the Meteorite List Forum. I know that quite a few watch the List and are probably viewing it constantly at this juncture with the news that Dr Jack has in fact found the new field. Congrats to Dr Jack for one superb job on his tracking and legwork on this latest fall and new history to be written in the state of Arizona.

For those of you that have never been to a field or been invited to hunt a new field it can be very frustrating to know one exists and salivate at the thought of some day having the opportunity to hunt. This is going on right now as I write this. I for one believe that the party that finds the Strewn Field has the glory. My current agreement with our team of hunters is that the main mass in the field, Shall remain in the hands of the initial finder whether we are all in a new area at the same time or not. If invited. This is a thank you for even sharing the fact that you even found one. (Or Telling us you did). If the Main Mass changes the previous specimen is returned to the finder and so on.

I have been very lucky in the past. I knew of the Franconia field and viewed the finds and patiently waited two years for the invite and was only 30 miles away with the coords. The respect of knowledge is important but friendship is number one. I assumed the field was being carefully documented and it was. As more hunters joined the hunt I was invited and I was sure my patience was rewarded.

There are some that think the Franconia field has not been documented. But let me assure you it has and very well. I for one gave all my coords to those who were working on the boundaries in the hope we would gain more knowledge on the workings of the universe.

Here is my point. Jack found the field and he has invited the best and until such time as others pay their dues and find it the field should be left in their capable hands.

Several thousand specimens have been found over the years in Gold Basin and the Franconia fields as well as Holbrook and Canyon Diablo here in Arizona after the fact. As far as laws are concerned. I asked a BLM ranger if was ok to hunt Meteorites and he said (Go for it) But everyone knows you will get hit by lightning three times before you find your first cold find. :laught16: Well maybe (Not) I have one and my partner has four. The new fields may be large and little funds available for the states and feds to study. We as professionals should take this task in hand to offer our support in the study. Who has the time and money in this economy to get there quick and get hands on. By the way State Lands in Arizona requires a hunting or fishing license to enter without a permit. There is no taking of anything period. Forest land or Federal has the same rule as the BLM at this time and works on the antiquities rule but has no rules on extraterrestrial finds. Private lands are up to the owner and do not enter unless you have permission. Please obey the rules as it is and not put the rest in jeopardy. P.S. the county recorder or the county G.I.S maps work for the exploration in the areas if available.

Good luck to all in Southern Arizona. Again Congrats Dr Jack.

Wayne Holmes :twocents:

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Hello all

For the benefit to the new people on the forum it think its necessary to clear up a few points that are going on in the Meteorite List Forum. I know that quite a few watch the List and are probably viewing it constantly at this juncture with the news that Dr Jack has in fact found the new field. Congrats to Dr Jack for one superb job on his tracking and legwork on this latest fall and new history to be written in the state of Arizona.

For those of you that have never been to a field or been invited to hunt a new field it can be very frustrating to know one exists and salivate at the thought of some day having the opportunity to hunt. This is going on right now as I write this. I for one believe that the party that finds the Strewn Field has the glory. My current agreement with our team of hunters is that the main mass in the field, Shall remain in the hands of the initial finder whether we are all in a new area at the same time or not. If invited. This is a thank you for even sharing the fact that you even found one. (Or Telling us you did). If the Main Mass changes the previous specimen is returned to the finder and so on.

I have been very lucky in the past. I knew of the Franconia field and viewed the finds and patiently waited two years for the invite and was only 30 miles away with the coords. The respect of knowledge is important but friendship is number one. I assumed the field was being carefully documented and it was. As more hunters joined the hunt I was invited and I was sure my patience was rewarded.

There are some that think the Franconia field has not been documented. But let me assure you it has and very well. I for one gave all my coords to those who were working on the boundaries in the hope we would gain more knowledge on the workings of the universe.

Here is my point. Jack found the field and he has invited the best and until such time as others pay their dues and find it the field should be left in their capable hands.

Several thousand specimens have been found over the years in Gold Basin and the Franconia fields as well as Holbrook and Canyon Diablo here in Arizona after the fact. As far as laws are concerned. I asked a BLM ranger if was ok to hunt Meteorites and he said (Go for it) But everyone knows you will get hit by lightning three times before you find your first cold find. :laught16: Well maybe (Not) I have one and my partner has four. The new fields may be large and little funds available for the states and feds to study. We as professionals should take this task in hand to offer our support in the study. Who has the time and money in this economy to get there quick and get hands on. By the way State Lands in Arizona requires a hunting or fishing license to enter without a permit. There is no taking of anything period. Forest land or Federal has the same rule as the BLM at this time and works on the antiquities rule but has no rules on extraterrestrial finds. Private lands are up to the owner and do not enter unless you have permission. Please obey the rules as it is and not put the rest in jeopardy. P.S. the county recorder or the county G.I.S maps work for the exploration in the areas if available.

Good luck to all in Southern Arizona. Again Congrats Dr Jack.

Wayne Holmes :twocents:

So you have to be invited to hunt for meteorites because the Dr. has filed a claim on the land or do you mean because he is keeping the location secret? So if someone else found the location on their own, could they hunt for meteorites too?

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Yes Cutt

Its wide open and with the proper permission you can hunt anytime or place. There is no claim to a fall of a meteorite. You have all rights to your finds. No agreements or anything. Just find it. Thats the hard part. I have spent hundreds of hours and years looking over the best ground in the southwest and its tough. Good Luck.

Wayne :icon_mrgreen:

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Many people have been tracking this fall. It is posable for others to find the location. I believe that the point that Wayne is trying to make is that some people are asking why hasnt Jack let everyone in on the strewn field data. Jack has done all the leg work so far finding the witnesses and tracking the fall location so we should wait and give the man some time to make his finds and make the work worth it. I too want a crack at finding a stone from a fresh fall since I didnt make it to West, TX but I will wait for Jack to make his mark first. Congratz again Jack!

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I'm sorry but your whole post is " BS" give space to those who "deserve it" My FAT "arse" come on You are just as passive as the rest of the whimps out there, its BLM land my god go out there and join in......... Oh Dr, you deserve it, ya sure he's been meteorite hunting 15 years that gives him rights My freaking AAAARSE, we are headed out on Sunday. there has been enough info let out it shouldnt be hard to find them.

Passive people are the wanters.. Get up off your butts and go get what is for the getting, Oh science my butt, they will be up for sell in no time mark my words at $100.00 per gram........... WATCH!

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Hello lkn4azau

For a member thats afraid to even name the city he lives in you are not much to call someone a wimp. I won't even go into how many I have found. How about you??? Passive is not in my vocabulary, but friendship is. I would hate to be in your shoes when it all ends after the post.

Sweet dreams :laught16:

Wayne Holmes Prescott Arizona.

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Im not calling you passive just everyone who wants to go but does not!!!!! and is afraid of stepping on the "PROS" toes, I have read every post from the metorite list and how we should all bow down to the "PROS" and let them have the strewn field for Science, Give me a break, Heck if they are so worried about making sure the strew field is marked of cords and such heck they can have the cords to the ones I find, there are guys on there complaining about this or that or the other about this fall. Just get up go and find them is all I was saying, And for you information, I stand firm in my shoes, I have no worries about what I say, :ROFL: Sorry if it offends :ROFL: . but is the truth. it is just like the West Texas fall they were selling for $100.00 per gram just after tehy started finding them, why do you think everyone is trying to sell all of the west texas pieces now. So they can start selling the sierra vista pieces.

Travis Brown Surprise AZ

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Guest bedrock bob
Im not calling you passive just everyone who wants to go but does not!!!!! and is afraid of stepping on the "PROS" toes, I have read every post from the metorite list and how we should all bow down to the "PROS" and let them have the strewn field for Science, Give me a break, Heck if they are so worried about making sure the strew field is marked of cords and such heck they can have the cords to the ones I find, there are guys on there complaining about this or that or the other about this fall. Just get up go and find them is all I was saying, And for you information, I stand firm in my shoes, I have no worries about what I say, :ROFL: Sorry if it offends :ROFL: . but is the truth. it is just like the West Texas fall they were selling for $100.00 per gram just after tehy started finding them, why do you think everyone is trying to sell all of the west texas pieces now. So they can start selling the sierra vista pieces.

Travis Brown Surprise AZ

Exactly Travis! Just DO IT!

Some of the big names will try every trick in the book to keep folks out of their hair while they snap up what they can. There are no real limitations as to what they will say or do and both of us know that first hand. Good for them (when they are surrounded by a bunch of guys that are willing to play that game). Adventure is there for those who go and get it. If this is on public land and the coords are known then it is a free for all. "Dont bother me while I snap up the specimens" is just hot wind. Science can hunt with the rest of us. If they want the stones they can start earlier, stay later, and keep their mouth shut about the location.

The goods go to the finder. If someone is peeved because they did not find it first and they want to research it they can pay market value for a stone just like everyone else. With the huge salaries of the university bigwigs any of them can afford to pay for what a hunter brings back from that field out of their pocket and never miss it. I realise that meteoritics is underfunded but that is the establishments problem to fix. It is not my job to stand patienly aside while a field is hunted out and then ask politely, "Are you finished yet?" before I start looking on the ground.

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Hear Hear Bob you said it, these guys are blowing smoke up everyones arse. its total BS and those who cant see that have been duped. sorry but its the truth, If I find the main mass or a large mass they will have to pull the thing from my cold dead hand. Who in the hell has ever heard of, oh you found one bigger than mine, I deserve your larger piece :rofl2: WTF... """"""""BS"""""""" Come and get it then, I dare you :innocent0009: . What a bunch of freaking crap. I have never heard of so much BS.

It is up for the grabbing I dont care about the resale value, I want pieces for my own collection, I have hunted all the major fields and have pulled pieces out of every field. No I hanv't sold all of the pieces I have found, I have sold some and those that I did, I regret selling them. I have pieces from some major strewn fields that no one has seen and probably wont until I see fit that I need to sell them. No Im not bragging just saying it the way it is.

If you guys that are reading this dont read into the smoke screens its a bunch of Crap, Honestly think about it do they really deserve the fragments more than you, I guess if you are passive and stop at the smoke screen you dont deserve to have a piece of the pie and eat it too. Im going to get my piece of the pie and eat it to. These guys that are called pros, make a living at what they do that is why they are called pros. so dont for a minute think they are doing it for the name of science. and not profit :tisc-tisc:

Travis Brown Surprise AZ

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So you have to be invited to hunt for meteorites because the Dr. has filed a claim on the land or do you mean because he is keeping the location secret? So if someone else found the location on their own, could they hunt for meteorites too?

Hi Guys-

Just because someone has found a new strewnfield shouldn't mean that no one else can hunt for it. If someone is willing to do the legwork themselves by going through the reports,driving around talking to people, triangulation,etc just like the original finder did- more power to them. I don't see how you can keep anyone else from looking for it themselves and you can't claim a strewnfield anyway.

I just don't like all this whining from people who want to hunt the strewnfield themselves and are complaining because they want to wait for the original finder to reveal the location. The same information the original finder used to locate the strewnfield is available to everyone else. So if they don't want to go through the trouble of find it themselves, they have absolutely no reason to complain. :twocents: :twocents:

Steve

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That is a good point Goldfinger. The point i was trying to make earlier was: "Don't expect for someone to give out the location right away they did the work and they are going to get their finds in first." If you want to hunt that area too do the work yourself or wait for the finder to tell us. Jack does not have an obligation to tell everyone right away.

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Aloha everyone,

After reading all the posts I have come to the conclusion that some of the posters think that the location should be given out to everyone. HA!! :laught16: I for one would not even have posted anything about finding a new strewn field until after I had an opportunity to hunt the hell out of it for a year or two and been able to log down all the finds for later reference work.

Just ask yourself this one question and you will understand why I am with the finder on this one. If I spent a lot of time, money and energy locating a new strewn field should I just go ahead and give out the coords to everyone so they could "hammer" this field without any thought to anyone but themselves? :Huh_anim]:

Personally I am willing to do my own research or just wait till the finder is willing to spill the beans. Just my :twocents: on this one.

Aloha and be safe out there.

Stan aka Kaimi

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Guest bedrock bob

Well I guess there are two kinds of strewn fields... The kind that you discover and the kind that someone shows you where to look. If Mr. Brown is the first to locate the field and finds a piece and invites Mr. Black to hunt with him then the two of them work it out as they see fit. Mr. Black is taken to the spot and does no research, gets a free ride, and is beholden to the person that gives him the info. If Mr. Green finds it on his own and shows up the next day, Mr. Black and Mr. Brown just have to deal with it. Mr. Green reaps the benefits of his research. If anyone can find a fall then MANY can find a fall. The only glory that the first finder gets is the glory of being the first finder.

I was offered about the same deal with Glorieta. If I handed over a portion of my finds I would get "information", and if I found a big one then I had to share it. Screw that. I did it all by myself, recieved no information that I was indebted for, and keep every one that I find. I know now that there would be very little info that anyone could give me that would have improved my take (that a few days beeping would not reveal), and there are many who are willing to share good advice with no expectations of gain. I cant help but feel that it was a raw deal and I am glad that I rejected it.

So, I will just make mine from scratch and keep everything I find. If the shoe is on the other foot I couldn't, in good concience, ask a man to give me a meteorite that he had found. It means nothing unless I find it, because after all, I fancy myself a meteorite hunter. Finding one is the goal... Not taking one that someone else found just because it was "bigger" than mine. (Penis envy maybe?)

Gold is the same. The recipe for gold is dirt, sweat, and time. Without the sweat and time the gold is worthless to me. Without the sweat and time a meteortite is just a piece of rust. If I give anyone a piece of information it is meant to help THEM find what they are looking for. If I want the material all to myself I will simply keep my mouth shut. I do not hunt for someone else and I would not expect anyone to hunt for me. Whoever I hunt with has the asurance that I am genuinely thrilled at your treasures and seeing you take your hard earned nuggets and meteorites home with you is almost as good as finding one myself!

If anyone really wants to make that kind of deal then lets see how this goes... I will give you the exact coordinates of my honey hole in Glorieta if you are willing to give me 50% of your finds. You hunt in the heat while I sit and drink ice tea in the shade. I will sweep you with my detector at the end of the hunt to insure that you are being honest. The contract lasts a lifetime...Anytime you hunt Glorieta you are beholden to me for 50% of your take. The only thing that I will save you is a few days research. Anyone out there want to find a meteorite bad enough to take that deal? Well, if there is dont bother to reply. If you are not willing to do the research you dont deserve to make a find, and if you would give up 50% of your finds just to get some material your mind is filled with the fever and I couldnt trust you anyway. Now if you are willing to do the research and spend the time, I will be more than happy to help out and shorten the task, and you can keep it all in a sack uinder your bed. You will owe me nothing, and will have recieved very little. The glory is to the finder!

If you are the "first finder" and you see me coming over the hill, expect me to be headed out the same way with my finds in my pocket and not indebted to anyone for information.

Bedrock Bob

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Hi All

I spoke my thoughts on this on another topic. Face it there are 3 kinds of people out there. Those that make things happen , those that watch things happen and those that wondered what happened. The later 2 are usually jeolous of the first. If you are good enough to make a find then by all means keep it to yourself and hunt the snot outa it kinda like a nugget patch. Open your mouth and everyone and their mother will be pounding your find/patch. The sad thing is those later 2 are kinda like Obama and his bunch and feel they are entittled to have at it. I'm certain there are hundreds of finds and strewnfields yet unknown in Az and some of significant value sooo quite whinnig and start lookin in new places. Happy Huntin John B.

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  • 3 months later...

just for kicks I thought I'd weigh in on this topic.

Yes, I'm new. No, I've never been hunting in the field yet. But this whole brouhaha (sp?) reminds me so much of another hobby I've enjoyed for over a decade, that of storm-chasing.

The old-timers lament the days when they could chase all day and almost never have to deal with rude newbies spoiling their views (and blocking the best views).

The newbies get upset when the old-timers form their own discussion groups and refuse to share their wealth of knowledge with the masses (for free).

The old-timers grumble about back in the day when they had to forecast with nothing more than a weather balloon, observations maps and colored pencils.

Add storm-chasing tours and sales of video into the mix and now you have monetary motivations to boot.

So this whole issue of keeping discoveries to yourself, etc. has a very familiar ring to it.

FYI, if I were to ever be the first one to a new field you can bet I'm going to grab one or two pros, sign some NDA'

s and contracts and hammer the heck out of that puppy! And not necessarily for monetary gain, but that's probably a whole 'nuther thread...

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