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NewBe

Yaestodays finds and some where im in doubt.

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Hej Carlson.

Indeed I have right insome degree.

Seweed will grow stone pretty fast as i have been making test on rocks.

2 weeks it will be slippery, a month it will have green spots. After 5-6 month the hole stone will green hair on it accsept the buttom part.

I agree that that they will deckay pretty fast but how fast no one knows, no one have ever made a test with this in maind.

I now that water expands when it gets hot and when it gets under 0C and the ice crystals will expand and crack the stones into smaller pieces.

I have been reeding a book about meteorites the book is calld ¨meteoritter nøgle til jorden fortid¨ written by Vagn F. Buchwald and poblished by gyldendal and here it says clearly that an chondrite class E or clan how ever you want will go from E to H to L to LL and here is my point there is nothing written about how much time will pass before it goes from an E to H. The next point is ¨chondrites does not have to be raund they can be flat or misplaced in the sens that a chondrit could have had a colission with a nother body cracked into peaces and then got reheated and got misplaced¨.

Olivine chondruls can contain feldspar in the core of the chondrul and olivine chondruls have three colours green green, bright green and white green.

The flakes you see in the pic as white dots are metal flakes not feldspar i now how feldspar looks like i got 12 (the highest grade in the grade system in DK) In volcanism, hot spots, chemichal composition of lava and volcano types, tectonik plates and movement. This was in ninth grade in tenth grade i got 10 for expleining core phisics. Never the less i have been in Poland in the mountains the part thats calld Gòry Stolowe here are mountains of sandstone. 18 years of my life i have lived be the sea so close that when i woke up i just had to push the curtains aside, there was the sea 10m from me, from the window. and 5 years close to the sea every one who lives in DK. have only a 1 hour ride be car to the sea.

The last point is that i have posted some pics of a hole stone where i got negative but then i cut some of the stones into smaller peaces and polished them and then i got very positive replys. Never judge the book by it´s cover.

But never the less the negative replys made me throw 9/10 of all i have collected away that would be around 180 Kg of stone and cept the ones felt strong about.

Thank you guys again.

Good hunting

Mikael

Mikeal,

Don't you see? If you had meteorites that had been in the ocean for such little time that you can eaily I.D. them becuase they had no sea weed growing on them then they would still display signs of coming through our atmosphere. You know flow lines, fusion crust, regmaglyphs, etc.... Yours don't.... Hence they are not meteorites. However, if you want to call your rocks meteorites in light of a mountain of evidence against such possiblility. Go ahaead. But don't for one second think anyone else on this forum is convinced... I'm done replying. Anyone else still care?

Ruben Garcia

Phoenix, Arizona

My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net

My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/

My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user...rfright&p=v

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Mikeal,

Don't you see? If you had meteorites that had been in the ocean for such little time that you can eaily I.D. them becuase they had no sea weed growing on them then they would still display signs of coming through our atmosphere. You know flow lines, fusion crust, regmaglyphs, etc.... Yours don't.... Hence they are not meteorites. However, if you want to call your rocks meteorites in light of a mountain of evidence against such possiblility. Go ahaead. But don't for one second think anyone else on this forum is convinced... I'm done replying. Anyone else still care?

Ruben Garcia

Phoenix, Arizona

My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net

My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/

My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user...rfright&p=v

Well you have not taking under consideration that this region grows 2cm every year and the sand will be caried away wille stones the size of a fist will be uncoverd ( waves don´t get bigger then a meter even not in a storm), second as chodrite can go from an E to an LL you can not expect them to have regmaglyphs nor fussiun crust. third i have described when a stone is contenues coverd in water not the border where they lei in water 12H and then the tide gows away and the there are lieing on the bech the next 12H.

You can relie on the fussiun crust, regmaglyphs and lava flows, i can´t because the climate is different and after a year all theese indications will not be there any more dependig on how big the speciment is.

why do you think i walk these beaches 2-3 times a week?

What you are talking about is a theory nothing more nothing less and a theory is when scientist gather to make some giude lines for people who are not educatet. The same is for the inside of the earth we have the crust that we know for surtain but after that every thing is a theore The lithoshpere, astenoshpere, outer core and the inner core and again it´s theore.

Next example is books about rollplaying it has guide lines and guide lines are ment to be brooken.

It´s all about guide lines.

well now i will post a pic. I relly don´t care if look at it or not.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss223/M...en/P6010151.jpg

So what is this?

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Oh boy here we go again... some guy who knows better than experienced meteorite hunters. Mikael apparently you think we're a bunch of idiots who have no clue what were talking about. Since we all know where this is going, perhaps you should try another meteorite forum. The people who post on the Sky Rock Cafe don't seem to mind identifying meteorwrongs (we like to see the real deal here), in fact they have a special section dedicated solely to meteorite identification. Here's the link to that forum-

Sky Rock Cafe

One more word of advice before you go- try taking an intoductory Geology class at your local college because this will help you with basic rock identification.

Del

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Mikael, Here is my :twocents: , You may have a meteorite or two in the bunch, but will see. My recommendation is for you to purchase two meteorites on-line. For example, an NWA H5 and a NWA L4 or L5. Buy only about 20 grams of each, and try to spend less than $1.50 USD per gram. Study the chondrules in the purchased meteorites. If you still think one of your finds is a meteorite, then contact a local laboratory. Ask them the price for performing a single total dissolution digestion of a rock fragment that you will provide. Tell them that they will have to grind the rock fragment in an agate crucible and you wish only 1 gram of the resulting powder be used for for analysis; no duplicate, no spiked sample. You suggest that they use a hydrofluoric acid (microwave maybe) dissolution method using a teflon beaker, or alternatively, a lithium meta borate fusion method, but not with a nickel fusion crucible. Also, a potassium hydroxide fussion method will also work, but agian no nickel crucible. Ask for the analysis by Inductive Coupled Plasma- Atomic Emission Spectroscopy (ICP-AES) for iron and nickel, and if you want (and have the money) the analysis chromium and cobalt (check on the price per additional element). Ask for the results in mg/Kg. The link below is a paper regarding the analysis of meteorites. All of the results in the article are in weight percent with some presented as oxides. One weight percent is 10,000 mg/Kg. Convert your results from the the laboratory from mg/kg to weight percent and compare to the result in the table in the article. If the results from the laboratory show the your specimen has greater than one weight percent nickel ie 10,000 mg/Kg nickel, then you probably have a meteorite. If so great, then find a meteorite identification laboratory that performs meteorite identification using electron microprobe analysis; usually a university. Talk to them or e-mail them, and ask if they want a payment, or a piece of the meteorite as payment for an analysis. Good luck hunting. Clifton

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_...&db_key=AST

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NewBe,

I was just giving my input as a professional Geologist who has taken hundreds of hours of course work related to geology, as well as hundreds of hours of feild courses and feild time with other geologists with much more experince then myself (not to mention the thousands of hours I spend for fun). No I am not a expert in extra-terestrial rocks, but I am paid to interpret rocks in the mining industry EVERY DAY. So you may have take a few classes in school, but my job is rocks and minerals. So no, dont judge a stone by its cover, but with all sciences the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. No one here is trying to discourage you, they are trying to help you focus your energy in a better direction (in our opinions). And where I am currently working I commonly find magnetite (metal) in basalt.

Good Luck,

Carson

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Well you have not taking under consideration that this region grows 2cm every year and the sand will be caried away wille stones the size of a fist will be uncoverd ( waves don´t get bigger then a meter even not in a storm), second as chodrite can go from an E to an LL you can not expect them to have regmaglyphs nor fussiun crust. third i have described when a stone is contenues coverd in water not the border where they lei in water 12H and then the tide gows away and the there are lieing on the bech the next 12H.

You can relie on the fussiun crust, regmaglyphs and lava flows, i can´t because the climate is different and after a year all theese indications will not be there any more dependig on how big the speciment is.

why do you think i walk these beaches 2-3 times a week?

What you are talking about is a theory nothing more nothing less and a theory is when scientist gather to make some giude lines for people who are not educatet. The same is for the inside of the earth we have the crust that we know for surtain but after that every thing is a theore The lithoshpere, astenoshpere, outer core and the inner core and again it´s theore.

Next example is books about rollplaying it has guide lines and guide lines are ment to be brooken.

It´s all about guide lines.

well now i will post a pic. I relly don´t care if look at it or not.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss223/M...en/P6010151.jpg

So what is this?

NewBe

A rock? Without more information a picture is worth almost nothing. Is it magnetic, what color is its streak, specific gravity? Start with the basics and narrow down what it could be, other wise its just another rusted rock.

Cheers,

Carson

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I just bought a GMT to look for meteorites and gold. I contacted an "expert" who's only comment was that it takes years to learn how to find a meteorite. I'm sure that there is a learning curve, but I think that he was trying to discourge me more than anything. I definetly won't contact him again. I met a guy from the Czech Republic who held my "meteorite" in his hand and said that it wasn't heavy enough. I thought it was heavy enough and boy does a magnet stick to it. Oh well. Maybe there is someone on this sight that is willing to meet meteorite novices to show them the basics. I hope your's are meteorites. Good luck.

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Arch...you do know about opinions vrs body parts don't you...

Most of the regular posters on the forum will happily give assistance where possible...but they won't usually take you to their prime spots as many of them earn an income from their activities. There are usually 2 or 3 gatherings where anybody is welcome...if you can make one, that would give you an intense immersion in the art of meteorite hunting.

Please, don't let the tone of some of these posts scare you away, when good information is freely given and then the reciever wants to argue...well it gets a little tiresome...

But then; we all know about casting pearls....

Fred

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Hello Fred,

Your right, opinions are like noses, everybody has one. I'm in the process of joining a prospecting club and there is an outing this Saturday. I hope to pick up some tips on using the GMT and looking for gold and meteorites. I've done some metal detecting over the years, but only had one opportunity to go out with an experienced detectorist. I've learned a lot from reading posts, opinions, from other people. Most have been more than happy to help, and I appreciated their comments. I realize that some people already have the answer to their question and just want an affirmation.

You mentioned making a living from hunting meteorites. I've seen those guys on the Discovery Channel and Haag in Tucson and that collecting and hunting meteorites can be lucrative. Are there people who do this as a hobby and make extra money?

Thanks for putting things in perspective and the for the encouragement.

Arch...you do know about opinions vrs body parts don't you...

Most of the regular posters on the forum will happily give assistance where possible...but they won't usually take you to their prime spots as many of them earn an income from their activities. There are usually 2 or 3 gatherings where anybody is welcome...if you can make one, that would give you an intense immersion in the art of meteorite hunting.

Please, don't let the tone of some of these posts scare you away, when good information is freely given and then the reciever wants to argue...well it gets a little tiresome...

But then; we all know about casting pearls....

Fred

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Hi Arch,

Let me explain why the "Meteorite Expert" may have left you with a bad impression. First of all, If they have written articles for national or international print magazines, done TV shows, have a website and videos, they probably get hundreds of wanna be meteorite hunters a month trying to get something from them. That in itself is not all bad. Some wanna chat (that's cool) some wanna pat you on the back (that's cool too) but most want you to take them by the hand and show them how to find a meteorite. Now that's something that most meteorite experts simply can't do.

I believe that if someone wants to do something bad enough they'll do it, regardless of whether or not they have a baby sitter. Many people on this forum were sent here by me. Here are just a few people ON THIS FORUM that asked me to help them- and I WOULD NOT help until they showed that they had what it took to find one without me. Nate, Dean, Mike, Paul, Del, Greg, Maria, Eric, etc..... Today, all are top notch hunters. Why? Because I hunted with them? NO! Even though I did eventhually take each one out on a hunt and taught them that is not why they are successful. They are successful because they WANTED IT BAD!

I suggest that any wanna be meteorite hunter do their homework! It gets old hearing how they've all found a meteorite. You know what? In over 11 years of people contacting me only one person actually had one and he was geologist! Just one... The guy that started this thread doesn't have any either.....Not that he found anyway. Maybe he bought one. And you know how I know it? Because meteorite hunting is very difficult to do on your own - without any help from a guide. I could put 10 people in the center of franconia and come back a week later and none of them would know for sure if they had a rock from space. This is because every 2nd rock out there will sound off on a metal detector and the metoer wrongs look as good as the meteorites!

So to any meteorite hunter wanna be. Please do your homework. The guys on this forum are very cool and will help, but don't act like you know you have a meteorite. Maybe you do, but maybe you'll win the lottery tonight too! Just ask questions but only after you've tryed to find the answer on line somewhere. Like Fred said once or twice a year some very smart guys have an outing at Gold Basin or Franconia- Jim Smaller, Stan, Ben and Eric, are good hunters and will be glad to teach you. But even with their help don't be surprised if you get skunked...it's hard to do. There are virtually no guides outside of gold basin and franconia that will tell you where and how they hunt...I won't tell you either.

Oh ya, Some of my best friends are expert meteorite hunters and make a living on it - Mike Miller, Marvin Kilgore, Sonny Clary to name a few. These are great guys but they never take newbies out on a meteorite hunt - either from this or anyother forum.

Consider yourself lucky if some "Meteorite Expert" tells you the truth- Meteorite hunting is HARD so study!

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G'Day Arch

You've had some pretty good advice here, everyone's pitched in with some sort of help. Being a newbie, finding your first meteorite is a big deal and one to be proud of. I think you need to take your first couple of steps, seek out a simple book on geology and the basics or possibly visit some great sites on the internet in regards to geology and most incorporate pictures that you can easily relate to.

It seems like you're serious, but have had a little bit of misdirection; that happens from time to time and it's no fault of yours. It's easy to throw out some names here and there, post up some finds and if you're well known, nobody will dispute the rock they posted, even though it wasn't tested; but it was found in a certain area so it must be a meteorite. Always address your rocks as terrestrial until all possible tests have been conclusive. Then your next step is putting a stamp of approval by going through the steps, paying out the cash to get it classified, that way you can stand tall and proud that you do have a meteorite. I'm no expert and don't claim to be, I could throw out a lot of names and places but that's not my style. I also don't go around bragging about what I found and where I found it until I'm absolutely sure and positive and have run the gauntlet of scientific tests with those that are qualified. And even after this, I try to keep things quiet until I think I've had my fill.

You can try many forums out there, but pictures are a really bad way of getting your point across. It's very hard to even surmise from a photo of the exterior and interior of a posted rock claiming it's a meteorite. A lot of things enter the equation with photos, everyone can guestimate that it looks like slag, magnetite, hematite, etc... The way you photographed it, the light and heaps of other problematic issues come in to play. Do your basic tests, open a window and if you feel confident then go back to geology, research the area geologically, see if you're in an area of past glacial movement, see if your area was subjected to a heavy volcanic past. You're talking about the ocean here, are they being washed up or being extracted from the surrounding coast line? A lot of the coast line is filled with spectacular and unusual geological structures, including basalt containing olivine, chert, there are natural agates, carnelians, chalcedony, volcanic glass and the list goes on. And believe it or not, a lot of what's found on the ocean shore has been eroded from coast lines and thrown back up due to tidal surge and associated storms.

So don't give up, we all start somewhere and even the greatest in meteoritics started off as rock hounds. Stay focused, learn and I wish you luck. But don't give up because of criticism, it's a valued commodity. I could keep going all night on this, but I've got to run around to a lot of other forums and stir up havoc.

Cheers

Johnno

Oh, by the way Fred.. darn, I didn't realize you were back online again. How's retirement treating you?

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Johnno,

You're confused. Arch only posted a repy to "Newbe" Mikeal who originally posted this topic. Mikeal is the one finding "meteorites" by the ocean.

Didn't I say I was done replying to this??? Ok now I am.

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Well, I did stay at a Holiday Inn. Actually, I have Rocks From Space. There is a lot to learn. I'm planning on going out this weekend with a prospecting club. Maybe one of them has hunted meteorites and can give me some tips. Thanks for the comments and advice. Have a good evening.

Johnno,

You're confused. Arch only posted a repy to "Newbe" Mikeal who originally posted this topic. Mikeal is the one finding "meteorites" by the ocean.

Didn't I say I was done replying to this??? Ok now I am.

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Hi Arch

This post is getting ridicules. First where are you?? Arizona I would assume. That’s all that would be important. The next thing would be how much info will pour into your world. Normally everyone will jump into the mix and give you so much info that you will be overwhelmed with the fact that all is accurate and where to go from there. Without some knowledge of your machine you would be lost in the mix. But with a sample of an L class and H class Chondrite, or Iron Meteorite you would not be far off in your quest. The machine should be tested with samples of the geology in the area to get the idea of what a meteorite would sound like. This is one way but only a test to get it into your ears as what you should dig in the field.

I have personally given hundreds of coordinates to give a new guy a shot in the field to find the first Meteorite. By the way the first two I found were by eye site and not by a detector. Thank goodness they were big enough to also make noise under the cheap machine I was using. I have taken expeditions to the Franconia and Gold Basin Strewn fields and have 100% finds at this moment. Its not easy but the learning curve must be applied in the offering. This would take at least an hour or two. We would test your machine to make sure it works and test Meteorites for the results. At this time the expeditions are not available. The idea still works and learn from this and all your Meteorite Hunting will be successful . :twocents:

Wayne

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G'Day Everyone and thanks Ruben

I stand corrected

I totally got confused. I need to wait till the weekend when I have more time to read the posts properly instead of rushing things when I get home tired.

My apologies to all.

Cheers Johnno

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As is usual...the discussion evolved and branched abit but the info is there for those that want to learn...

Johno, my friend...I work for no man...borrowed from o'brother...I highly reccomend getting checks in the mail, sitting around in your jammies doing forum-y things, the occassional chore...I could go on but...it would be paramount to bragging...not my style.

I hope things are better for you and Kat...

Arch if you live in San Diego County we could meet up...I don't know much but I am willing to help those that help themselves...

Fred

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Thanks again for the posts. I just watched a video on youtube.com by a Jason Snyder. He said that he and another guy were amateur meteorite hunters. He looked pretty experienced. Did he mean that he was an amateur because he hunts for fun or doesn't have much experience? He seemed to know what he was doing. If he's an amateur, I guess I must have a heck of a lot to learn. Thanks for the offer Fred, but I live eight hours away from you in Arizona. If you ever come to Arizona and I have the time off, I'd appreciate the chance to learn from a veteran meteorite hunter. Thanks again to all for the positive comments and encouragement. By the way, this was Newbe's thread, and I didn't mean to hi jack it. Have a good day.

As is usual...the discussion evolved and branched abit but the info is there for those that want to learn...

Johno, my friend...I work for no man...borrowed from o'brother...I highly reccomend getting checks in the mail, sitting around in your jammies doing forum-y things, the occassional chore...I could go on but...it would be paramount to bragging...not my style.

I hope things are better for you and Kat...

Arch if you live in San Diego County we could meet up...I don't know much but I am willing to help those that help themselves...

Fred

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Oh, I know who started the thread...they almost always morph along the way...

Eight hours might put you near Kingman...there are some excellent gold/meteorite hunters up that way...

Jason is a very fine recent veteran and has become one of the addicted...He may be an amatuer hunter but is one heck of an astronomer...

Or, perhaps Payson, there are some good hunters there too...darn BIG Infestation of gold/meteorite hunters in AZ.

If you are not one of the Big Dogs, part of their pack, certified, or making lots of money you might be an amatuer...I am just in it for the fun...

Fred

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G'Day Fred

Good to hear from you again. I'm glad you've reached that peak of luxury, but pajamas? darn, I'd be out scanning the fields or the beach.

I'm just like you and the rest of the others ... amateurs. I've never bragged about my conquests and never will. Someday people will find out about them. I'm easy going, be it with meteorites as a novice, gold prospecting - a novice, geological specimens - a novice. But darn, I have a great collection to leave to some institution when I pass. I like being an amateur, you don't attract attention. I'm amazed at the people that want to brag, it doesn't get you anywhere, just paints a picture of their character. You've met me and Kat and you know the field we play on. But it's great to listen to everybody's posts on here. It gives you a little bit of perspective of who's who and what's what.

Cheers

Johnno

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G'Day Fred

Good to hear from you again. I'm glad you've reached that peak of luxury, but pajamas? darn, I'd be out scanning the fields or the beach.

I'm just like you and the rest of the others ... amateurs. I've never bragged about my conquests and never will. Someday people will find out about them. I'm easy going, be it with meteorites as a novice, gold prospecting - a novice, geological specimens - a novice. But darn, I have a great collection to leave to some institution when I pass. I like being an amateur, you don't attract attention. I'm amazed at the people that want to brag, it doesn't get you anywhere, just paints a picture of their character. You've met me and Kat and you know the field we play on. But it's great to listen to everybody's posts on here. It gives you a little bit of perspective of who's who and what's what.

Cheers

Johnno

Johnno,

:wubu:

Great post. Very well put, you said a mouth full................I will tip a tinny to that one...............

Jim

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Johnno,

:wubu:

Great post. Very well put, you said a mouth full................I will tip a tinny to that one...............

Jim

Hi Johnno and Jim and all,

Just read your post. I'm not sure who those comments are directed at. As I read through some of the posts from the beginning to end I realize they could be pointed several people. Including me. Which would surprise me since Johnno and I have always got along well. However, If they were directed at me. HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT!

I'm kidding... After examining myself (spiritually) today I realized that I HAVE BEEN a little, mouthy bordering on rude at times. I lose patience much quicker than in the past that's for sure. That's not to say that anything I've said wasn't true (Except maybe that I personally taught Greg - if anyone did it was probably Mike Morgan) But my typing does get ahead of my brain sometimes.

Actually, I think that rather than try to defend myself it would be best (spiritually) to take under advisement the constructive criticism. Since if it was ment for me or not - I kinda agree.

So to anyone that I've been short with, or rude to, or bragged a little too much. I appologize.

If it the comments were meant for someone else then I'll leave that up to their conscience.

Have a good day. My boys and I are heading to Holbrook!

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Aloha Guys,

It seems that somehow this thread got offtrack. No problem tho!

After reading most of the posts I can agree whole heartedly with Ruben that if you want to "learn how to hunt for meteorites" you really just need to go out and "do it". I started a couple of years ago and have lately been a little more tight with my info for obvious reasons. When you start becoming lucky like me and hit a good spot or two then you need to keep that spot a little secret until you have "cleaned it out". :innocent0009: HA!! I still go back to some old spots and still find one or two fragments from a spot I thought I cleaned out. :Huh_anim]:

It takes a LOT of time and dedication and learning your machine and yada yada yada!!! Yeah I can go on and on about this subject but the first question is "WHY?". :tisc-tisc: You just need to do your research and go out and swing that coil. :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:

Weather has changed for the better this week so I am off and running to another old spot to see if I can "clean it out AGAIN!!"

Aloha and be safe everyone.

Stan aka Ka'imi

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Everyone on here has great info, thank god the way I learned was easy, as gold basin is my back yard. But without going into great detail, here is the simple solution.

1. Get a known good meteorite hunting detector

2. Look for a known Strewn field

3. Get/ buy a sample meteorite from that known strewn field.

Then :icon_mrgreen:

Good Luck!!!!

Dave

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G'Day Everyone

First off, Jim you always know that you have a cold tinny waiting at my camp.

Stan, I agree that the thread got a little bit lost as Fred pointed out to me and Ruben corrected me and yes, there's nothing better than hands on experience.

My comments were not directed to any group or single individual, I was just voicing myself.

Ruben, APOLOGIES NOT ACCEPTED. Because there was no reason for an apology. You have every right to give your opinion.

One quote I really liked that was represented in Nininger's Find a Falling Star. I don't know why, just liked it

"Opinion and force belong to two different elements. To think that you are able by social disapproval or other coercive means to crush a man's opinion, is as one who fires off a blunderbuss to put out a star." - John Morley

Cheers

Johnno

P.S. I read this late after you left so I hope that you were successful at Holbrook. Can't wait to see the pics.

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Here is the pic to go with your quote Johnno

post-13464-1244429989_thumb.jpg

G'Day Everyone

First off, Jim you always know that you have a cold tinny waiting at my camp.

Stan, I agree that the thread got a little bit lost as Fred pointed out to me and Ruben corrected me and yes, there's nothing better than hands on experience.

My comments were not directed to any group or single individual, I was just voicing myself.

Ruben, APOLOGIES NOT ACCEPTED. Because there was no reason for an apology. You have every right to give your opinion.

One quote I really liked that was represented in Nininger's Find a Falling Star. I don't know why, just liked it

"Opinion and force belong to two different elements. To think that you are able by social disapproval or other coercive means to crush a man's opinion, is as one who fires off a blunderbuss to put out a star." - John Morley

Cheers

Johnno

P.S. I read this late after you left so I hope that you were successful at Holbrook. Can't wait to see the pics.

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