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Another example would be, what if that vein pitched almost straight down into a mountain that was made of loosly consolidated material? So you assayed the exposed rock, cool. Now you have to spend 3 times more time and energy in bracing and digging carefully, than you spend in hauling out the paying ore. After 50 ft or so you are losing money.

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That is one of the advantages to doing extensive drill work. It not only gives vein samples but also tells about the country rock around the vein. Modern mining companies certainly know what they are doing well before the first blasting or digging. I really have serious doubts if a large mining company will commit to a mine operation solely based on a spreadsheet .........

The only reason I originally posted this, was just to share something they found and many of us wish we could...... certainly not to argue about the inferred profit or loss one can make on a mining venture. I am always looking at these reports just for the fun of it, not to mention there is always a chance of profit from investing in small exploration companies when their stock is at $.01 or less. There is also a chance on losing that investment........

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That is one of the advantages to doing extensive drill work. It not only gives vein samples but also tells about the country rock around the vein. Modern mining companies certainly know what they are doing well before the first blasting or digging. I really have serious doubts if a large mining company will commit to a mine operation solely based on a spreadsheet .........

The only reason I originally posted this, was just to share something they found and many of us wish we could...... certainly not to argue about the inferred profit or loss one can make on a mining venture. I am always looking at these reports just for the fun of it, not to mention there is always a chance of profit from investing in small exploration companies when their stock is at $.01 or less. There is also a chance on losing that investment........

Probably my fault as I was asking questions and trying to understand the issue and the disagreement.

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Guest bedrock bob
Ok I understand that. But I still fail to see why "all assays" are BS. I could see them being meaningless to say the weekend prospector, but wouldnt they be a valuable tool to the big operations? I mean how could a large venture even begin to invest without one? I would think that an honest assay would be needed to atract investors, if for nothing else.

I never said all assays were BS. Reno Chris said I said that. I was being an ass when I wrote it, in response to him saying that I said it. Assays are a great tool... BUT... Just because a mechanic has a great set of wrenches dont make your Porche run smooth, and it does not mean that the rest of the tools in the box are Snap On either.

I know exactly what to expect from an assay that I cut. If someone else cut the sample it really does not give me much info as to the value of a mine, or even the validity of the assay. Published assays are for the P.R. effect and that is what this one was. A mining engineer takes that assay info and does something completely different with it than a person reading this in a published paper. For an engineer it is a great tool to make decisions from. To a potential investor for instance, it should mean very little. Blocked out reserves are great, but they wouldn't be advertising if they had the money to dig it up on their own with no capital needed. Not to say it is a hoax...not at all. All ventures need capital and this is the way a mining venture is financed. There is just a hell of a lot more to the story than a favorable assay report. There are also a LOT of fake assays floating around out there for the public to oogle, and a shitload of ways to loose money in a mining investment.

...In other words, "SHOW ME THE GOLD".

"A miner is the world's greatest optimist. He is either one foot from a million bucks, or a million feet from one buck." - Some wisdom from the men's room wall at the S Bar X Saloon in Hillsboro, New Mexico.

Bedrock Bob

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I believe an old newspaper man in a mining town in Nevada said that "All statisticians are liars". Assay results are just that...Statistical analysis.

...

Bedrock Bob

bedrock bob, isn't the quote "there are liars, damned liars and statisticians"?

Which reminds me that there are three kinds of people, those who can add and those who can't.

Similarly there are 10 kinds of people, those who get binary and those who don't.

:laught16:

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I never said all assays were BS. Reno Chris said I said that. I was being an ass when I wrote it, in response to him saying that I said it. Assays are a great tool... BUT... Just because a mechanic has a great set of wrenches dont make your Porche run smooth, and it does not mean that the rest of the tools in the box are Snap On either.

I know exactly what to expect from an assay that I cut. If someone else cut the sample it really does not give me much info as to the value of a mine, or even the validity of the assay. Published assays are for the P.R. effect and that is what this one was. A mining engineer takes that assay info and does something completely different with it than a person reading this in a published paper. For an engineer it is a great tool to make decisions from. To a potential investor for instance, it should mean very little. Blocked out reserves are great, but they wouldn't be advertising if they had the money to dig it up on their own with no capital needed. Not to say it is a hoax...not at all. All ventures need capital and this is the way a mining venture is financed. There is just a hell of a lot more to the story than a favorable assay report. There are also a LOT of fake assays floating around out there for the public to oogle, and a shitload of ways to loose money in a mining investment.

...In other words, "SHOW ME THE GOLD".

"A miner is the world's greatest optimist. He is either one foot from a million bucks, or a million feet from one buck." - Some wisdom from the men's room wall at the S Bar X Saloon in Hillsboro, New Mexico.

Bedrock Bob

Ah your right and I stand corrected. So much info and opinions were flying quickly, that I lost that point. That happens on the forums a lot. Misconceptions of what someone really means. It will probably continue to happen. I for one that all that have posted, because that has contributed to my education and understanding of the issue at hand.

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Mining is a TOUGH business to make a buck at, especially if you are not manging a big mining company. .

I'll certainly second that Mining is a tough business to make a buck at. No question about it. Hard rock mining (which is what the original post was about) is the most difficult of the types of mining. It can be done but its anything but easy. Nomally hard rock takes a whole lot of big investment money up front.

It is basically a hobby, and most people would do well to forget about getting rich, or even finding something that will give them a steady job. I said it before and I will say it again..

I totally agree with that one too.

Assays are a great tool... BUT... Just because a mechanic has a great set of wrenches dont make your Porche run smooth, and it does not mean that the rest of the tools in the box are Snap On either.

Agreed, and like I said, an improperly taken assay is worthless, but sometimes a well taken assay (or a whole bunch of them) is exactly the tool you need to answer the question "Is this ore deposit worth investing in?"

"Published assays are for the P.R. effect and that is what this one was."

Bob - I understand what you are saying, but there is more to it and not all assay reports are published only for the PR effect.

I'd say we agree on a lot of stuff, but may have a different perspective on some things.

Chris

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Guest bedrock bob
I'll certainly second that Mining is a tough business to make a buck at. No question about it. Hard rock mining (which is what the original post was about) is the most difficult of the types of mining. It can be done but its anything but easy. Nomally hard rock takes a whole lot of big investment money up front.

I totally agree with that one too.

Agreed, and like I said, an improperly taken assay is worthless, but sometimes a well taken assay (or a whole bunch of them) is exactly the tool you need to answer the question "Is this ore deposit worth investing in?"

"Published assays are for the P.R. effect and that is what this one was."

Bob - I understand what you are saying, but there is more to it and not .

I'd say we agree on a lot of stuff, but may have a different perspective on some things.

Chris,

I am not trying to school you man. I am not trying to be the end all authority, nor exclude anyone elses input. Sonny just asked some questions and I gave him my short version of a very complex question. I thought I did a really good job and I was not trying to piss anyone off. I didnt say "all assay reports are published only for the PR effect" either! What's up with all of that? Read the next sentence!

Eldorado posted nothing but a photo of an assay report and Sonny was trying to learn something about it by asking some very good questions. I saw it as an opportunity to answer a question on the forum rather than field all of the questions posed to me on the PM by folks that dont feel comfortable posting here. Instead it wound up like it usually does. Every detail of what I had written was picked apart and examined for flaws or omissions. When few conflicts could be found my point was twisted into something it was never intended and criticized on that front. Twice.

I am not attacking Eldorado for a darn thing. I thought it was a great opportunity for a discussion and I only answered Sonny's direct questions. Those of us that have a little experience at this crap are supposed to expound a little. Just like the newbies are supposed to be able to get an answer to a question. These are my opinons and I have more than a little experience to share on the subject. I believe they are good ones. I would like to think that I offer some perspective that wouldn't otherwise be discussed, but hey, maybe my perspective on the subject is not appreciated here.

So I am darn sorry if there is anything that I have posted here that has rubbed someone the wrong way. I certainly did not intend for it to. It is just my opinion and if someone here feels that my opinions are offensive then I suppose they should just kiss my dirty old hard rock gold mining ass. And that, by the way, is also just my opinion, and not a poke at you or any particular person here... Just some general information that I would like to share with you all.

Bedrock Bob

Chris

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Your ass is dirty? Dontcha wash it? Ewww, no more reach arounds for you! :laught16:

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Bob -

Hey no harm done - Maybe I was sounding a bit too offended myself. There is always room for discussion and no one knows it all. One of the great things about these forms is that we can all share our experiences, thoughts and opinions. I'm glad you shared your thoughts, I'm sure a lot of folks found the discussions interesting.

I think we are in agreement on most of these things and probably most of the seeming disagreement is semantics.

All the best,

Chris

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Bob -

Hey no harm done - Maybe I was sounding a bit too offended myself. There is always room for discussion and no one knows it all. One of the great things about these forms is that we can all share our experiences, thoughts and opinions. I'm glad you shared your thoughts, I'm sure a lot of folks found the discussions interesting.

I think we are in agreement on most of these things and probably most of the seeming disagreement is semantics.

All the best,

Chris

I know I did and still do. As I said before sometimes we have misconceptions on this forum.

Also, again thanks to everyone that answered my questions.

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Hey Guys: Gold comes in many forms... Jim Straight

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I have followed this discussion the whole time just seeing how others look at hard rock mining. Chris, your quote. " Hard rock mining (which is what the original post was about) is the most difficult of the types of mining. It can be done but its anything but easy. Nomally hard rock takes a whole lot of big investment money up front" is right on the money. After spending 90% of my mining career hard rock mining the only thing I found easy about it was sitting in the chair looking at the bar of GOLD that we poured. It is a hard way to make a living. When sampling an ore body I have always sectioned it off in 10 foot sections, chip away the top ore and took chip samples full length of each section(at least 10-15lbs). When I got home I would split each sample in half, combine half of each sample together as one. This gave me two mixed samples from the ore body. I would then split those two samples and combined the halves. from this I would crush and pan 5lbs of ore, if I had color, say 1/16 or 1/8 long in the pan I would send two samples out to two different assays. From these I would make the determination as to work it or not. That was how my father taught me and it always worked for me. :twocents: :twocents:

Ol'29er :coffeetime:

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Ol’29re, I’m so glad you jumped in here on this thread. There are only a few people that post to the forum that know more about small scale hard rock mining than the rest of us and you have shown me direct proof of your years of experience. I was flat amazed at what a very small crew of miners could accomplish from the information we exchanged.

I'm a very fortunate man to shake-a-howdy with you. I also have a deep respect for the personality behind the man from the short visit we had, I also learned a lot as well. I should also mention before that howdy shake occurred we had a “few” phone conversations and I was, to say the least, intrigued by the amount of historical information you were able to provide on your life in hard rock mining.

I should also mention to all that Bob has his own forum here on Nuggetshooter…..Bobs Story Forum…..there’s some great information in his words of historical events, here’s the link;

http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=14

I hope the healing from the back surgery is going well for you Bob and I’m looking forward to the day when your able to bounce around like a new pup!

Gary

PS to Keith: I sent you a PM.

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Ol’29re, I’m so glad you jumped in here on this thread. There are only a few people that post to the forum that know more about small scale hard rock mining than the rest of us and you have shown me direct proof of your years of experience. I was flat amazed at what a very small crew of miners could accomplish from the information we exchanged.

I'm a very fortunate man to shake-a-howdy with you. I also have a deep respect for the personality behind the man from the short visit we had, I also learned a lot as well. I should also mention before that howdy shake occurred we had a “few” phone conversations and I was, to say the least, intrigued by the amount of historical information you were able to provide on your life in hard rock mining.

I should also mention to all that Bob has his own forum here on Nuggetshooter…..Bobs Story Forum…..there’s some great information in his words of historical events, here’s the link;

http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=14

I hope the healing from the back surgery is going well for you Bob and I’m looking forward to the day when your able to bounce around like a new pup!

Gary

PS to Keith: I sent you a PM.

Gary, thanks for the heads-up on Bob's Story Forum. I'd seen it but not been there. So last night I went and started reading. You're right, I am intrigued with his stories and am heading there from here.

So much to learn. And thanks for writing those stories and posting them 29 Propsector.

Dig it

Keith

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Thanks guys for the comments. I do miss hard rock mining alot but I've been able to convert to dry placer and detecting.

My back is healing fine but slowly. Thanks to Denny, Micro-nugget, and few other members of WSPA and PCSC I've been able to return back to the field on a limited basis. Hillsides still give me a fit but even that is getting better.

Ol'29er :coffeetime: :coffeetime:

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