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Another Wipe out an Industry Bill - End ALL Mining In U.S. - Unbelievable! Has Support in CONgress

When I think I have heard it all, a bill has been introduced that has support that would wipe out one of our few remaining industries - Mining!

I can not grasp what our govt. is thinking, but bringing these bills up, when they are done, we won't have any industry left. The amount of jobs lost would be tremendous if this bill sees the light of day and gets passed!

link to article:

http://www.icmj.com/article.php?id=56&...ning_in_the_U.S

Contact information for each of the bill sponsors:

Nick Rahall (D-WV) phone 202 225-3452

George Miller (D-CA) phone 202 225-2095

Henry Waxman (D-CA) phone 202 225-3976

Ed Markey (D-MA) phone 202 225-2836

Howard Berman (D-CA) phone 202 225-4695

Raúl Grijalva (D-AZ) phone 202 225-2435

Rush Holt (D-NJ) phone 202 225-5801

Jim Costa (D-CA) phone 202 225-3341

Donna Christensen (D-VI) phone 202 225-1790

Dale Kildee (D-MI) phone 202 225-3611

Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) phone 202 225-6335

Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) phone 202 225-4811

Patrick Kennedy (D-RI) phone 202 225-4911

Ron Kind (D-WI) phone 202 225-5506

Lois Capps (D-CA) phone 202 225-3601

Adam Schiff (D-CA) phone 202 225-4176

Mike Honda (D-CA) phone 202 225-2631

John Salazar (D-CO) phone 202 225-4761

Anna Eshoo (D-CA) phone 202 225-8104

Niki Tsongas (D-MA) phone 202 225-3411

Gerry Connolly (D-VA) phone 202 225-1492

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Being from Colorado, I wasn't too surprised to see Congressman Salazar had supported this Bill :Huh_anim]: . When I went on line and tried to email him, he only accepts email from those in his district. Since I'm not in his district, I was unable to voice my concerns, and all the 202 area code numbers to call only frustrate one as you get to hear lovely non-human voice mails telling you to press this for that etc :grrr01: . While I've lived in lots of places while spending 26 years to defend the rights of others, and this country in going to pot very quickly, there isn't another place I'd want to live despite all the problems we have had in the past and will continue with now and in the future. Small time recreational prospectors won't have much of a leg to stand on if and when this bill or another to take its place is put into effect.

Another Wipe out an Industry Bill - End ALL Mining In U.S. - Unbelievable! Has Support in CONgress

When I think I have heard it all, a bill has been introduced that has support that would wipe out one of our few remaining industries - Mining!

I can not grasp what our govt. is thinking, but bringing these bills up, when they are done, we won't have any industry left. The amount of jobs lost would be tremendous if this bill sees the light of day and gets passed!

link to article:

http://www.icmj.com/article.php?id=56&...ning_in_the_U.S

Contact information for each of the bill sponsors:

Nick Rahall (D-WV) phone 202 225-3452

George Miller (D-CA) phone 202 225-2095

Henry Waxman (D-CA) phone 202 225-3976

Ed Markey (D-MA) phone 202 225-2836

Howard Berman (D-CA) phone 202 225-4695

Raúl Grijalva (D-AZ) phone 202 225-2435

Rush Holt (D-NJ) phone 202 225-5801

Jim Costa (D-CA) phone 202 225-3341

Donna Christensen (D-VI) phone 202 225-1790

Dale Kildee (D-MI) phone 202 225-3611

Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) phone 202 225-6335

Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) phone 202 225-4811

Patrick Kennedy (D-RI) phone 202 225-4911

Ron Kind (D-WI) phone 202 225-5506

Lois Capps (D-CA) phone 202 225-3601

Adam Schiff (D-CA) phone 202 225-4176

Mike Honda (D-CA) phone 202 225-2631

John Salazar (D-CO) phone 202 225-4761

Anna Eshoo (D-CA) phone 202 225-8104

Niki Tsongas (D-MA) phone 202 225-3411

Gerry Connolly (D-VA) phone 202 225-1492

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Did you notice not one republican is a backer of this bill! Keep this in mind at our next elections.

Being from Colorado, I wasn't too surprised to see Congressman Salazar had supported this Bill :Huh_anim]: . When I went on line and tried to email him, he only accepts email from those in his district. Since I'm not in his district, I was unable to voice my concerns, and all the 202 area code numbers to call only frustrate one as you get to hear lovely non-human voice mails telling you to press this for that etc :grrr01: . While I've lived in lots of places while spending 26 years to defend the rights of others, and this country in going to pot very quickly, there isn't another place I'd want to live despite all the problems we have had in the past and will continue with now and in the future. Small time recreational prospectors won't have much of a leg to stand on if and when this bill or another to take its place is put into effect.
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Did you notice not one republican is a backer of this bill! Keep this in mind at our next elections.

yes, I noticed that, and I hope people keep in mind how the Republicans did not want to pass the first stimulus bill and all but 3 voted for the new bill.

He has introduced a similar bill for the past 20 YEARS – only this year is the worse bill yet.

He has a better chance than ever before of succeeding because of the libs in Congress.

The National Mining Association is working on defeating it, BUT they have very few friends in DC this year.

It could pass. UGH!

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From what I read it only curtails operations WITHOUT a notice or plan of operations. Maybe a good idea after seeing the senseless destruction of a hillside near Greaterville a couple years back by a so called club, a LARGE ditch witch and an even larger water truck basically hydo mining on public land with no claim to the area. People like that are the reason the enviro's have taken such a stance against even the casual prospector. Given the choice I would rather see the whole area closed off (Which it was by FS) than see any so called prospector rape an area of land like that.

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Guest bedrock bob
From what I read it only curtails operations WITHOUT a notice or plan of operations. Maybe a good idea after seeing the senseless destruction of a hillside near Greaterville a couple years back by a so called club, a LARGE ditch witch and an even larger water truck basically hydo mining on public land with no claim to the area. People like that are the reason the enviro's have taken such a stance against even the casual prospector. Given the choice I would rather see the whole area closed off (Which it was by FS) than see any so called prospector rape an area of land like that.

That is a very objective viewpoint. It is the truth. There is nothing wrong with "responsible use" of public land and the average prospector should not be over regulated, nor the average ATV'er, or hunter or any outdoorsman. There are those that would take advantage and there needs to be laws and provisions made toward those ends. As a people and voters we line up on opposite sides of the line on these issues and each side wants all or nothing. One side or the other wins, and no matter which side wins it is too extreme one way or the other.

Bob

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With the current administration's agenda it will not be long before the strangulating tentacles of government take the breath of freedom away from everything we do.

I am an old fart, and have lived a life that many can only dream of, I have had more gold pass through my hands then most can imagine...... I feel so sorry for the following generations that will never know the freedoms I have enjoyed........

When I was told I have cancer, I thought that was the most devastating thing in the world, it is only but a drop in the bucket compared to what those assholes in Washington are doing to all of us.

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Old Salt

I can't believe that you haven't heard about this bill before now.

I have posted this information several times on 4 forums. Several

others have too.

This bill was killed last year under the title of HR 2262. It was

reintroduced as HR 699 a month or so ago. Most people are too

interested in making small talk or gawking at some crumbs to

pay attention to details,until its too late. Very few have even

bothered to go to the posted links and read the bill,when there

was actually something that could be done. Some take it for granted

that because they belong to a club,that they will be OK. Clubs and

hobby prospectors will be the first out the door,when this mess passes.

Right now the chance of this bill not being passed ,is about as realistic

as hoping Obama turns Republican. :Huh_anim]:

Rahall and Salazar has pushed this bill for years. It has been brought

up with each new administration . So far the only thing that has saved

us,was there was enough Republican influence to kill it.

If the bill is passed in its present form,we are screwed. Our only hope

is that the big mining interests,can get it watered down,and a few changes

made in the wording.

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Hello Sawmill,

Since most people are too lazy to read through even the summary of the bill I think they need a very clear picture painted for them.

As it applies to us the small scale miner:

What would this mean for metal detecting in the USA? And Dredging? Would it shut everything down with impossible to meet regulations for the small miner?

Would it end the mining supply industry in the USA including all the current Minelab and other dealers businesses since customers will not be able to comply with this law?

(I am not even going into the destructive effects on our economy this bill will have when we have to source most minerals from foreign countries.)

I posted this on other forums as well but nobody paid attention. Instead they were gawking at small pieces of gold posted while their hobby is being shut down.

If this passes they won't be posting much of those nuggets anymore. Even if they comply with this crazy law I doubt these guys will want to pay 8% of everything they find.

Sometimes I think Americans deserve what they get for being so asleep. Can we wake people up or are we finished mining within a year or two?

I hate how this country uses the left/right paradigm to abuse our freedoms. We are truly living under the tyranny of the majority instead of the Libertarian republic this

country is supposed to be where all right & freedoms are protected. Every 4-8 years the public gets pissed and vote in the right and they remove freedoms on the right. Then in

another 4-8 years the public gets pissed again and vote in the left and they remove freedoms on the left. The whole thing is a fraud to herd sheep. Soon, this system of manipulation leaves all American citizens

in a virtual prison with no rights & freedoms at all. If this crap doesn't stop our children will one day be asking what it was like to be free. The only thing allowed will be to

sit in front of your computer or T.V. and go to work as a slave for the system and it's taxes. No more mining for you slaves! Pay your taxes on every aspect of your life and enjoy it.

Heck, the RFID chip in your hand would probably interfere with your detector anyway.

Best Regards,

Don

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Casual use would be redefined to allow only those activities that do not cause “any disturbance of public lands and resources.” The collection of samples, use of gold pans and non-motorized sluices would be the only activities allowed without a Notice or Plan. Taking a vehicle off-road would also require a Notice or Plan. Any extraction of minerals for sale or use would require a Notice or Plan.

The very first portion of the bill is designed to completely take away any recreational prospecting. Soon you will need to file a plan to go walking through the woods too. OH Yeah and dont pick up any rocks on your nice walk!

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Guest bedrock bob
Hello Sawmill,

Since most people are too lazy to read through even the summary of the bill I think they need a very clear picture painted for them.

As it applies to us the small scale miner:

What would this mean for metal detecting in the USA? And Dredging? Would it shut everything down with impossible to meet regulations for the small miner?

Would it end the mining supply industry in the USA including all the current Minelab and other dealers businesses since customers will not be able to comply with this law?

(I am not even going into the destructive effects on our economy this bill will have when we have to source most minerals from foreign countries.)

I posted this on other forums as well but nobody paid attention. Instead they were gawking at small pieces of gold posted while their hobby is being shut down.

If this passes they won't be posting much of those nuggets anymore. Even if they comply with this crazy law I doubt these guys will want to pay 8% of everything they find.

Sometimes I think Americans deserve what they get for being so asleep. Can we wake people up or are we finished mining within a year or two?

I hate how this country uses the left/right paradigm to abuse our freedoms. We are truly living under the tyranny of the majority instead of the Libertarian republic this

country is supposed to be where all right & freedoms are protected. Every 4-8 years the public gets pissed and vote in the right and they remove freedoms on the right. Then in

another 4-8 years the public gets pissed again and vote in the left and they remove freedoms on the left. The whole thing is a fraud to herd sheep. Soon, this system of manipulation leaves all American citizens

in a virtual prison with no rights & freedoms at all. If this crap doesn't stop our children will one day be asking what it was like to be free. The only thing allowed will be to

sit in front of your computer or T.V. and go to work as a slave for the system and it's taxes. No more mining for you slaves! Pay your taxes on every aspect of your life and enjoy it.

Heck, the RFID chip in your hand would probably interfere with your detector anyway.

Best Regards,

Don

Man, you hit the nail right on the head with that one. By dividing us, both sides are stripping us of our power. You are right, we deserve it. The average Joe nowdays will let the politician stick it in his fanny and then ask for a kiss. One side is just as apt to be doin' the screwin' as the other. We make it a lot easier for them when we stand there with our heads in the sand and our pants down around our ankles.

Bob

Bob

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Don71

The facts are,that most hobby prospectors don't want to hear anything

negative or read things like boring legal stuff.

Its more fun to think about the next outing,or dream about hitting the

Mother Lode. Most can't stand to see anything political posted on a gold

forum.

Living with your head in the sand can lead to some real unpleasant

surprises. Politics and boring old laws are the only reason any of us has

a place to prospect period. Politics and new laws can take it all away in

just an instant too.

Yes the hobby guys and clubs will get a shock if that bill passes. The

hobby guy and small operator are always an easy target for environmentalist

laws. The first thing to consider is there is no Federal Mining laws that

protect club claims,or hobby claims. But due to the past and current good

nature of the BLM and Forest Service,and others ,they have let stuff slide.

This has gave most people a false sense of security,and lead others to

believe in rights they don't really have. Mining is a business for producing

valuable minerals for profit ,and developing real working mines,and all the

laws were wrote for that purpose. The people that wrote the HR bill know

this too,and will use it,against hobby miners.

The bill in question requires records and payment for all gold or other

precious metals obtained from Federal land. It also states that casual

use can't cause any disturbance on Federal land. With that kind of wording

one dig hole can be called a disturbance.

Its not so much what it says,as it is what it doesn't say. If the real miners

have to pay royalty,keep records,and file a plan. They are not going to sit

still for hobby prospectors finding and selling gold under the radar. The

Federal government and especially the liberals uphold the discrimination

laws too. There is no way a claimant with a couple or three casual use

claims can work them and afford to comply with the rules unless he has a

real paying claim. But the first time you show a decent sale,the Feds will be

knocking on your door, for their cut,and demanding a plan.

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One thing to remember is that it is PUBLIC LAND managed by the Forest Service and BLM.

PUBLIC LAND is for the People of the USA. Sometimes you will catch a Forest Ranger calling it

"Forest Service Land" as this is what they are taught. They do not want miners on THEIR land.

The miners where I mine always correct the Rangers when they say this and it causes them to take one step back.

Even right now it takes forever to get a plan approved in my area. They can take years even though the law states

they are supposed to respond within 30 or 60 days. (can't remember if it was 30 or 60) All I hear are miners

complaining about lack of cooperation in getting their plans approved. If this law goes into effect I see

only the rich & powerful getting their plans approved. All us little guys will probably never get anything

approved or be just plain denied mining or prospecting rights. They are taking our rights and turning them into deniable privileges just as they are trying to do

with many other rights like the 2nd Amendment for example. 2009 is going to be a bad year. (and 2010, 2011, 2012.......)

I know that some of these politicians are just ignorant and don't understand how these laws they pass have serious unintended consequences.

On the other hand, I think there is a large portion of government that is totally corrupt and even criminal. I bet Rahall is posing

as an environmentalist while being bribed by some large special interest. There is probably a large mining company rubbing its hands

together when it eliminates all its competitors with this bill and gets special treatment. Treasonous Scumbags!

Best Regards,

Don

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I really wish people would stop seeing the GOV as the FEDS who want to take everything away from everybody....

The GOV. is just a figure head, the PRES. is just a figure head. Special Interest has been running this country for a LONG time.

Remember when tobacco hired a bunch of DOC's to testify that smoking DID'NT cause cancer?

Our GOV. is a whore for hire.... Let's see...A bunch of politicians who's main concern is hrmmm...my house, my wife (if she's lucky), my kids.... screw everyone else.

The Bush's were oil people, so oil and the market ruled... The Democrats are gimme money, you cant do that types...

The funny thing about poloticians is....they'll be anything you want them to be....as long as the price is right.

There are many things that broke this country...

#1. People posting their opinions in forums rather than telling the B***ERD they elected.

#2. Small businesess hiring illegals to save money...

#3.Unions demanding better (insane) wages for their members...to me this is what broke the economy to begin with.... $50.00 an hour to install a seat in a car....PLEASE! (Their are guys out there getting killed just so you have the right to do that)...

#4 Big business moving their factories to foreign countries ( lets fire the union...move to a foreign country....then resale our product back in the USA) Yeah this makes sense... OH Hello China....

So ATM greeenies are the highest bidders...SAVE THE POLAR BEAR...Screw your rights...And make sure you report that ammo to the ones that love and care about you...

Love B.O.........

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Hello Propanner,

I agree with you, the government is a whore for hire. I even heard it said the reason Government is shutting people out with Wilderness areas, etc. is because they have

pledged the natural resources of these areas as collateral for USA debt to China and other countries. Farfetched?

I worked in the manufacturing industry and was yelling and screaming the whole time it was being sent to China.

Nobody really cared but they sure do now! This is probably going to be the same situation with mining down the road.

(I owned an electronic component distribution company that had to be shut down because of manufacturing going to Asia.)

The unions and people getting greedy is what caused everything being sent to China. You can pay somebody $200 per day in the USA or $1 (or less) a day in China.

If somebody cuts off their finger in an American factory they sue for millions of dollars and the company goes out of business. In China if you cut off your finger you are fired.

The American people did do some of it to themselves by being spoiled but our government has been lacking the common sense (or doesn't care) to do anything about it for a long time.

Moving everything to China was to exploit its slave labor work force. I think this is one of the main reasons we are in a recession/depression now. The new USA service economy model doesn't work in the long run.

I could go on and on but I don't want to hijack the thread any further. It is supposed to be focused on stopping the mining bill HR 666 I mean HR 699.

Thanks,

Don

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Hello Don71,

The real threat is when this GOV bans the right to own gold, like it was before the 70's...

If you research the history of gold price....it was like $20.00 per ounce, thats because the GOV had control and was based on what THEY were willing to pay per ounce. Back when the dollar was based on the gold backing it...."The Gold Standard"

There is rumor (alot of talk) about the GOV revoking the right of the servant "citizen" to posess or sale gold..

If this GOV were to revoke our rights, we would be SCREWED all together... We would revert back to the gold standard.

And China...Russia...would buy up all the gold...I'm guessing you know where it'd go from there...

Honestly I have NO idea where the hell our caretakers are going....

When I was 15.....My dad was all the guidance I needed. Now B.O. wants to be my VALENTINE :skunkkitty2:

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Don71 and Propanner

Come to Southern Utah and I will be glad to show you why I call so

called public land Federal land. It is just like trying to have a picnic in

a Federal prison,complete with the guards and rules. :laught16:

Southern Utah was used as a test and a training ground,it will be coming

to an area near you too.

The BLM and Forest Service used to be just puppets that answered to

the government . That is no longer the case. The Forest Service and BLM

is loaded all the way to the top with radical environmentalist. Both have a

large registered environmental group for their employees . A lot of the wacky

laws and rules are being fed straight to the politicians from both agencies.

Both agencies are now large political machines,and have a hell of an influence

on any new laws or rules ,that they can have their cronies in Congress pass.

They love it when people blame this kind of crap on big mining companies,

or other big resource users. That gives those puppets plenty of time to come

up with the next scheme. If it wasn't for the big companies spending millions

of dollars fighting these idiots,we would have disappeared a long time ago.

The Department of Interior,and Agriculture Dept are both headed by liberal

environmentalist now. Check out what happened to all the new oil,and oil shale

leases a couple weeks ago. Ask some of the drilling crews about the fines for

letting their pickups idle over 3 minutes on start up in minus 30 degree weather.

I should have said X drilling crews,since they have started stacking rigs in record

numbers. The BLM shows up on site packing a ticket book. Not only do they enforce

BLM rules ,they enforce EPA and all the other agency rules,all with stiff fines.

If you liked $4.00 gas ,you will love the next year. Most of the good guys in the

Forest Service,and BLM have retired or got a belly full and quit. The rest are just

putting in their time waiting for retirement,because their opinion no longer counts.

When you live in an area totally controlled by Federal government, it just

comes natural to refer to all of them as Feds. :Huh_anim]:

Don't know how many of you guys that have actually sit across a table from a

radical environmentalist leader and tried to talk to them. They don't care about

people or small business. Most would volunteer to burn detector factories and

mining suppliers to the ground,or have someone do it. Most of these groups are

nothing but closet terrorists,and thrive on hate,and power. They have been known

to lie about their agenda too. I hate to admit it but I personally know a bunch of

them. They are not your average person either. Most have a few college degrees,

mostly law degrees of some sort. They have done their home work and know how

to reach the right people,to push their agenda.

Don't fall for the big company versus little guy crap. Dividing the opposition is one

of their favorite tactics . Once they have got a division going,they start picking off

the targets one by one. They don't take any prisoners or show any kindness to little

guys either. :twocents:

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Like Sawmill has stated, this bill, now HR699, continues to "morf" into some new presentation of the same garbage that was not passed by prior Legislative sessions of Congress.

IMHO, if you really want to do something about these continuous attacks on our rights and the means which "they" use to do so.....may I first suggest doing some 'research' on the "Rules and Regulations" that Congress has adopted for their own Benifit!.....Most are not Constitutional!

Funny, "re-districting" also comes to mind as well.....I came upon a response on another forum directed to Salazar re: HR699, and I paraphrase.....'Since you are not a member of his district we cannot accept further comment via email'.....? Huh! The person sending his discourse, is a citizen of the USA living in another State of our Country. What the hell is this "ruse" all about!??

Here in CA there are some very "honorable organizations" that are doing their best to fight this infringment against miners rights and envrionment lawsuits. I refer to the PLP and New 49'ers.....linked to our site.

One other thing, has it ever occured that sometimes these protective aggencies i.e. the BLM and FS have allowed for "envrionmental destruction" only to make a point later on to "Shut Down an Area".....due to, you name it against everyone?

Gary

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Thanks everyone for the great thread. In California,Oregon and Washington dredgers have been continually doing battle to stay alive. Every year it is the same thing just written a bit different or coming from a different direction.

Considering the agenda of the current administration I feel we may be surrounded and outgunned. I never thought I would be saying that.

Writing, or calling politicians is just about the only ammo we have but they are wearing the armor of indifference to the public and really do not give a crap. Most do not even respond............. Time to put an airburst round in the voting howitzer and take a bunch of them down.

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Since I'm not in Salazar's district, I was not allowed to make comments on his web site. I did find his email address and sent him a regular email (not from his site) and got a reply that essentially told me that since I wasn't from his district he wasn't able to comment about the bill. I replied and said he and his brother (his brother left Colorado to be in Obama's cabinet) don't represent the people of Colorado, even those from his narrow minded district! I think the 49'ers do a fantastic job trying to get bills such as this killed and that's why I support them financially. Anyway, I hope this bill gets a negative vote as it is nothing but a joke, but that's only my :twocents: on the subject.

h20prospector

Like Sawmill has stated, this bill, now HR699, continues to "morf" into some new presentation of the same garbage that was not passed by prior Legislative sessions of Congress.

IMHO, if you really want to do something about these continuous attacks on our rights and the means which "they" use to do so.....may I first suggest doing some 'research' on the "Rules and Regulations" that Congress has adopted for their own Benifit!.....Most are not Constitutional!

Funny, "re-districting" also comes to mind as well.....I came upon a response on another forum directed to Salazar re: HR699, and I paraphrase.....'Since you are not a member of his district we cannot accept further comment via email'.....? Huh! The person sending his discourse, is a citizen of the USA living in another State of our Country. What the hell is this "ruse" all about!??

Here in CA there are some very "honorable organizations" that are doing their best to fight this infringment against miners rights and envrionment lawsuits. I refer to the PLP and New 49'ers.....linked to our site.

One other thing, has it ever occured that sometimes these protective aggencies i.e. the BLM and FS have allowed for "envrionmental destruction" only to make a point later on to "Shut Down an Area".....due to, you name it against everyone?

Gary

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I can't imagine sitting across a table from INVO RADS.... I think I would just beat them...with a chair....or better yet....A plastic bottle of water.

Theres been alot of talk about gun control, so heres a question to all of you.

I personally do not own a gun...I have kids and my wife runs a day care from our home....just not comfy with the idea in this situation.

So here it is...

In my area I have alot of "from my cold dead hand" people....

If the government really does start confiscating firearms (just a matter of time I think) who will YOU be?

Are you the "cold dead hand" person?

Or are you the "to many laser pointer dots on my heart" person?

And please state "why" you made your choice.....

Thanks....

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So here it is...

In my area I have alot of "from my cold dead hand" people....

If the government really does start confiscating firearms (just a matter of time I think) who will YOU be?

I have to ask this first of you 'Propanner' since you think it's "just a matter of time"....."What side of the fence do You Stand On".....and Who "will You be"?

Are you the "cold dead hand" person?

You know, .....I remember an old girl friend saying something like that!

Or are you the "to many laser pointer dots on my heart" person?

Well again,.....that all depends on were your heart is, and be very mindfull and careful of

senseless accusations toward / against Gun Technology. I will say this in some very PLAIN WORDS so LISTEN.....if our Government wanted to STOP weapons development, Winchester, Smith and Wesson, Glok and,and,and.....Any other FIREARM ban would already have HAPPENED.

Tell me something, Where do we, USA, export these technologies to? And how many AK-47s made in Russia are somehow finding their way to places like Iraq, Afganistan, Iran, Syria.....etc. etc. etc. ???

"And please state "why" you made your choice....."

Do you have any idea what the SECOND AMMENDMENT of our Constitution is all about?!!.....Freedom fought for and rightfully earned by "We the People" against tyrany!

It is there to PROTECT all of us from the Evils of Government should they overstep their bounds! Read your History, many fought for it, and you might want to re-read the DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE.

Also, if you don't own a gun / weapon.....is that ment to mean that others of good intentions and no criminal record shouldn't.....and are out there to take aim at you with their "laser pointers", get a real grip on things???

Gary

BTW, given the things I've already stated.....CHOICE.....is a human fact of life! It all depends on how that "choice" is made by YOURSELF.....it cannot be proffered to anyone but yourself.....YOU MADE IT!

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Gary ... well said ... I was about to post something similar but you covered the bases.

I have stated my position on this board and others before. Propaner what say you? Perhaps if you would really like to have opinions on this subject, you would consider adding a new topic to deal with this topic alone ... after all this thread was begun with the loss of mining rights not gun rights in mind. In my way of thinking you have done much like our politicians who continue to add pork and distasteful bills to otherwise good legislation. Step out from behing the curtain and speak your piece ... and then I will say what I have said before and continue to believe.

Mike F

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Gary ... well said ... I was about to post something similar but you covered the bases.

I have stated my position on this board and others before. Propaner what say you? Perhaps if you would really like to have opinions on this subject, you would consider adding a new topic to deal with this topic alone ... after all this thread was begun with the loss of mining rights not gun rights in mind. In my way of thinking you have done much like our politicians who continue to add pork and distasteful bills to otherwise good legislation. Step out from behing the curtain and speak your piece ... and then I will say what I have said before and continue to believe.

Mike F

Mike,

I Heartfully SECOND that MOTION regarding a NEW THREAD.....Politicians / News organizations love it when they think the range-boss is the only one "driving" the cattle!

Gary

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Gary ... An odd way to say it given this Northern Yankee's way of thinking ... but I understand your "Southwestern-ese"! Let's see if he starts a new thread! Mike F.

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