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NATIVE AMERICANS WHO


garimpo

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Hello Don...I just want to thank you for adding this site....I often think of the hardships they have had to endure....I hold the highest degree of respect for them...Not just for what they have done but....also for "who" they are...Our forefathers!...jet521 aka jerry

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OK...I am gonna risk my opinion here and I hope no one comes after me too loaded for bear. As a History Major, I agree that the Native Americans were a great people. They lived with the land and took only what they needed. We did commit what many would say are atrocities against them.

In "my" reality though, the Native Americans were set up to lose, by the lifestyle they were bred for. All through History, the Nations of Europe...Yes we are part of that...have not taken advantage of lesser sophisticated peoples for the sake of anything but room to grow. Yes there are specific or individual atrocities that have been commited that should not have happened, but the overall theme of moving in on another peoples land is the land.

This is actually "being Human". The native Americans did this also, but on of course a smaller scale. Through recorded and unrecorded Native American History, there were fierce wars fought between tribes for hunting rights. Whole tribes were either wiped out or assimilated.

So I guess I have to ask.......is assimilation and annihalation any different from the end of a gun or the point of a spear?

I have great respect for all the Native Americans. I think the greatest testimony to them is the fact that we tried at times to wipe them from the face of the earth and they still hung on to assimilate themselves into, not our way of life, but into what has become our land.

While we all must have great respect for these tribes of peoples, we must not forget how we as a people from different tribes, have romanticized their plight to the point of pity.

post-21685-1228574894.gif

OK.......that was my 2 cents worth take it how you want it. Yell at me and tell me I am an idiot. But please remember, that this same thing is still happening in Africa and South America still. We are all in search of anothers land.

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sonnysnewlife,

You sure used a big stick to stir the pot with this post, and I am sure your post will will have some people thinking a little differnt than they have in the past, I know it has me. It makes me think that we wren't quite as bad as I thought we were.

Thanks,

John

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Sonnysnewlife....my mother was a slim..tall...beautiful 50% Comanche woman...that makes me

part American Indian (notice I didn't use the politically correct term Native American)...after reading

your take on the plight of the American Indian...not only was it painfully erroneous to the point of

being sickening but it was also the exact same thinking of the political powers in the 1800's that not

only allowed but encourage the rape...plunder...murder and slaughter of thousands of American

Indians .....just where have you been in Africa and South America....land has nothing to do with what's

happening there...it's the same as before...one race hates the other...the one with the most power and

money kills off the other....ever hear of Genocide?....I've traveled and lived in both continents and

unlike your History class's ( you either skipped a few and the professors were drugged out Liberal

70's and 80's hippies) living here is learning the truth from the ground up....

You give the excuse of Genocide as"being human"....history has a long list of names that think the

same as you...just a few would be Gen. Custer...Castro..Hitler...Saddam Hussein...Chemical Ali...

I for one have never known one American Indian that has "romanticized their plight"....

It's a shame that a Liberal like yourself can sway the thoughts of others with thoughts like the

holocost never happened....

I do agree with one of your statements...your an idiot.

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Wow....well I expected it and it came. Dear sir, I would not presume to know who you are and I would hope that you do the same. While you are correct, a history "class" would not lend one the vital information on a first hand basis, the fact that I have History "degree" and I have personally been to 22 countries might allow that I have some experience. This was borne from being a direct decendant of Friedrich Wilhelm Viktor Albert. So my studies did not include just the history of matters as we have written it in to the books, but the physcological aspects that have affected all humans from all walks of life.

But Sir please understand that land is money and power. And during the Native American wars, the Land is what was wanted.

My observations did include that the Native Americans with the most hunting range (land)...had the most power and very often did not take any encroaching on their (land). Therefore they would quite often wage war against other tribes that would encroach on their (land) and either totally wipe out or totally assimilate that encroaching tribe into their own in the form of slaves and wives. Thus being the very epitome of genocide.

No sir, they did not have gas chambers or chemicals, they had knives and spears.

I list an example that is currently happening in South America with the burning of the rain forrests. It is the land that a certain people want and they are burning a habitat that is other peoples use just the way it is. These peoples are then forced to either move off, move to the cities or die. Again this is not being performed with gas chambers or chemicals, it is at the end of a torch.

I also did not mention Native Americans romantizing their plight, I was accusing the "liberals" and the uninformed of doing that.

Also please understand that this right wing Republican should have a right to voice his opinion, without being called "Hitler". At no time did I advocate any genocide of any peoples. And I am sorry that I have raised your ire, but the right to ones opinion without persecution, is one of the few things this country I love has done right.

That being said, I applaude your passion sir. I respect your opinions and hope this finds you well this Christmas season.

Namaste'

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Sonnysnewlife,

what the hell is that icon with the blood running down someones shoulder? What's the purpose/message?

Just curious.

Also, no matter what the Native Americans did amongst themselves, it does not justify what was done to them by outsiders who wanted their land. Excuses are like a$$holes, there are millions; it doesn't make it right.

Look at your own signature. You are condoning or justifying what you stated you are against.

snakejim

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Sonnysnewlife,

what the hell is that icon with the blood running down someones shoulder? What's the purpose/message?

Just curious.

Also, no matter what the Native Americans did amongst themselves, it does not justify what was done to them by outsiders who wanted their land. Excuses are like a$$holes, there are millions; it doesn't make it right.

Look at your own signature. You are condoning or justifying what you stated you are against.

snakejim

Hmm, I never thought that a trickle of blood from a thumb could be so disconcerting to people.

Please reread the comments I have posted. At no time did I attempt to justify anything. I am only attempting to relay that all peoples of all walks of life have commited atrocities against others. That the United States has followed in those footsteps and commited their own atrocities. So did the Native Americans.

But again, at no time did I say I was or anyone else was.....OK with it........I also at no time stated that I was for or against the atrocities that have been commited. Please let me say, so that everyone is clear.........I am at no time condoning Genocide or any other type of harm to anyone on the face of the Earth....geesh, never thought I would have to say that to anyone either.

As this is such a heart felt and volitile subject to some, I will make no other comment other than to say, my intentions are to understand why the atrocities happen and the mind set of the peoples commiting them.

As far as my signature goes, that is a quote from what I consider to be on of the late great Americans that loved all Peoples and demonstrated that on a constant basis...........John Wayne.

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To whom is has concerned. As the trickle of blood runing down my thumb represented my no pain no gain philosophy to not just life, but my pursuit to become both a good and a lucky nuggetshooter, I have been made to feel that it was either somehow inappropriate or was making some neo political statement.

We please comfort yourselves, I have changed it.

to make a joke I sincerely hope is not taken the wrong way, if you do not like this one, please kiss my avatar?

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sonnysnewlife, now that you have insulted all of us, contrary to what your hero John wayne would have done. Please take your bullcrap somewhere else. My friend garimpo was trying to be nice and show respect to those who he thought deserved it, but had been overlooked for many years. You are not only not being nice, if you maintain this attitude you will not be welcome at any prospectors camp fire. Why don't you take up golf.

snakejim

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sonnysnewlife, now that you have insulted all of us, contrary to what your hero John wayne would have done. Please take your bullcrap somewhere else. My friend garimpo was trying to be nice and show respect to those who he thought deserved it, but had been overlooked for many years. You are not only not being nice, if you maintain this attitude you will not be welcome at any prospectors camp fire. Why don't you take up golf.

snakejim

Wow, I just don't get it. I have not personally attacked anyone. But it is clear to me that freedom of speech is not honored by some here. I have simply stated an opinion about a particular subject and I am acosted with what amounts to "shut your mouth if you dont think like we do".

I am sorry, I thought I only gave educated opinions and welcomed educated responses. I promise I will have no opinion voiced on this forum ever again. I will continue to read the forums to glean as much information about mugget shooting as i can. I leave with this postin with hat in hand and a sense of loss.

With that said, its really hard to dig up nuggets with a 9 iron.................

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Guest bedrock bob

It was a point of view. I see the merit in it. It was well supported. Come on, all people war, and no one was trying to justify a darn thing. Just put the facts in a different light. It is funny how defensive people get when someone shakes up their little world and asks them to accept a different point of view. Even just slightly different.

As for offended, anyone who was offended is just playing with their own ego. I wasnt. I am not responsible for anyhting that my forefathers have done. I cant take credit for the successes any more than I can take the blame for the failures. All men fall short and have the sins of the first on their head. Anyhting that was done after that has been attoned for. The Spanish skinned the living, the Russians starved their own, the Aztecs sacrificed and had cannibalistic ceremonies. Hey, I have enough to do besides worsip the guilt handed down to me by my forefathers. To be offended by a mans opinion after they so readily provide their own is a lot like putting that chip on the shoulder and begging someone to knock it off.

A man that has an independant opinion is rare. A man that offers it in a public forum is rarer still. This man will always be welcome by my camp fire.

Of course that man will now be known by his new name, Stinky tailfeather.

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  • 1 year later...

In researching old topics, I came across this one. I find it amazing that on a topic such as this, a man with an opinion was not allowed to voice it without the security of American rights. I also find it ironic that those rights were secured by the very people that killed the American Indians and stole their land. Even more ironic is that this guy was slammed for his opinions that he gave and defended so eloquently, by people that defended those rights of free speech.

Its so funny that some things seem to never change...

I also researched sonnysnewlife/stinky tailfeather. It would seem that he too defended those rights. The same rights that now belong to the American Indians of every tribe. It would have been interesting to know this person. He seems like a person that was able to look at both sides of a topic, without infringing upon the rights of others.

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I too am an American Indian, 2/3 rds, Cherokee on my mother and fathers side. Baldridge, is listed as and in the final Dawles Roll you can google it. My forefathers did March and take part in the Trail of tears. The whites forced marched the tribes from the Carolina's and Georgia to Oklahoma teritorty. And Yes I'm Part Irish, so my other ancesters had a part in this. Like my uncle said: the white man came over and told the Indians, we come in peace! All we want is your land. I'm proud of who I am and the blood I came from. I fought for this counrty, no I was not drafted, I volinteered. I figured it was my duty and my privledge to do so. Grubstake

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:twocents: For how many centuries must we pay for the sins of our great great great great great great grandfathers?? I am a AMERICAN--not white,black,brown, or indian anymore, just a darn screwed over poor working slob who is REALLY fed up with the sniveling and demanding $$$$$$$$$ for ancient history. And our screw up government ain't helping a thing. Be PROUD to be a AMERICAN and flush the rest a the BS down the toilet--the enemy don't give a squat what your color, race or creed is---they just wanna kill you--your wife and kids--and bury our country for Allah--John :grr01:

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