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BLM questions......


wyldkatt7

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Hey Every1.....

Well, I just got off the phone,(after 45 mins. of talking) with the main office in Phoenix...The fella I spoke with, spoke slower than Ben Stein, from the RedEyes commercials....OMG

Anyway, I still don't know anything more now, than I did going in.....effin pissed me off...

So here's the deal.....there are 2 lode claims that I was made aware of.....looked them up on GeoCommunicator, found out they are not "active".....they are "closed"...

So; wanting to have my ducks in a row before going out to make prospects, and possibly re-opening the claims...I wanted to

know what the current land status was, and called BLM....1st mistake

Okay folks...this is where I'm needing help....

1st claim we looked up, came back "record destroyed", this happened back in the early nineties, 1990s that is...

Apparently, if there's no action on a claim after a certain amount of time, as in years.....it goes to file 13....

Anyway, claim contestant #2 came back "archived"....He said possibly for historical purposes...............Huh???

This old lode mine is actually a "feature" on both topos and forest service maps.....

So all I want to know is; since their status is "closed", can I make a valid claim on them??? they is neither lode or placer claims on these locations as of this post.....

Me and this guy went round and round about Lat and Long being used for locating....he said "no way"

My question is; if a section of land is 640 acres....how does one find a 4 foot piece of PVC corner marker,(if you did it legal in Az.), just with the (meridian,township,range,and section w/subdivision???

Is this the reasons for people filing on top of one another???............This guy said degrees, mins, and secs are not required for filing, maybe someday, but not now....WTF

Can anybody out there explain this a little better for me????

Location #2 is between two other claims, seems like a couple hundred acres on each side of the one I'm investigating separating #2 from each of the others...

so I don't want one of these others getting in my face, if they're unaware of the open status of #2.....ya follow??

Any ideas anybody??? As usual, thanks in advance........... .~wyld~.

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You can certainly use GPS lat/lon coords to place your posts or look for existing ones. BUT.. the BLM wants legal descriptions for a placer claim IE: W 1/2 of SW 1/4 of SW 1/4 Township, Range, Meridian.......As far as a lode claim goes, you still can use a GPS to locate it, but must describe it from a known location that would show on a topo. IE: starting from the intersection of RoadX and Road Y go 3000 feet @ 320 degrees to the sw corner of the lode then 650' @ 08 degrees to the NW corner...etc. They just will not accept using GPS coords in the legal description of claims.

If you can ever get into that office, they have a great book for sale all about mining claims. It is also much better to personally visit the BLM office to properly research claim info

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You can certainly use GPS lat/lon coords to place your posts or look for existing ones. BUT.. the BLM wants legal descriptions for a placer claim IE: W 1/2 of SW 1/4 of SW 1/4 Township, Range, Meridian.......As far as a lode claim goes, you still can use a GPS to locate it, but must describe it from a known location that would show on a topo. IE: starting from the intersection of RoadX and Road Y go 3000 feet @ 320 degrees to the sw corner of the lode then 650' @ 08 degrees to the NW corner...etc. They just will not accept using GPS coords in the legal description of claims.

If you can ever get into that office, they have a great book for sale all about mining claims. It is also much better to personally visit the BLM office to properly research claim info

Thanks El Dorado.......sure seems like a lot of fractions in a square mile........ain't there?? :angry-smiley-010:

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Wyldkatt

I feel your pain,I have talked with the same guy.

You can talk longer and find out less with him than

anyone you will ever meet. :laught16: :laught16:

He is full of BS about the latitude and longitude thing

too. That is how the BLM locates their section corners,

and darn near every thing they do. It needs to be in

minutes,seconds and degrees,for them to understand

it.

At the field office ,if you give them the GPS coords,

they can pin point any location on the map,then look

up the status. They insist on legal description on claim

papers,and claim maps,but love it when you print the

GPS coords next to the corners along with your other

descriptions.

That way they can walk or drive right to a corner,or

locate a claim within just a few feet on a map,and don't

have to depend on sketchy information.

As El Dorado said claims are closed for lots of reasons.

Just because it is closed does not allow it to be claimed

again. It could have been closed due to non mineral

owned land,or pending land trades,or sales.

If you want 20 different answers about something,

just call that guy 20 times. :twocents:

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Yo Wyld...First off...Learn UTM, it actually is much simpler that Lat/Long and can put you on a dime...In Arizona you can discribe your corners and distances using UTM...Not sure about KA but probably since UTM is universilly recognized....You also need to use some physical feature too because that's left over on the old time location notices...Kalifornia, and other states for that matter, "allows" using metes and bounds, i.e., nw 1/4 of s/w 1/4, etc., but does not require it...It is still recognized that a mineral location does not fit generally into a manmade grid pattern...But metes and bounds is convenient...I own a claim that overlaps sections and does not fit exactly into metes and bounds...In fact, over the years I've owned a number of claims that are oddly shaped...So your best bet is to use corner locations using UTM and I guarantee you it will be the best legal discription...Trying to make a mineral deposit conform to metes and bounds not only can be difficult, but also expensive....And confusing...Do you know how much trouble I would have had marking the legal corner below with metes and bounds and Lat/Long???? :confused0013: :;): :flasher: OK...That's all I have to say about that... :headphones: Cheers, Unc (Geeze, Billy's added a butt-load o' cool new smilies...Thanks, Bill)

post-9-1217988063_thumb.jpg

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Wyldkatt

I should have been a little more clear about the status thing.

Just the mention of that Phoenix guy kinda sets me off and I

get a little out of sorts. :laught16: :laught16:

Due to the antique system and people just guessing at distance,

and most everything else while mapping and recording claims,

the BLM can tell you there may be a claim in a quarter section. But

they can tell the land use status ,like private,non mineral use,

and restrictions.

Believe it or not the BLM is currently looking at a GPS corner

marking system,to eliminate all the screw ups. In the next few

years claim owners will probably get a notice to GPS their corners

on existing claims,so the locations can be found and mapped.

The BLM still uses the latitude ,longitude,degrees,minute,second

thing ,with their coords,because it works with old maps,and surveys.

I have a good friend that is working on the GPS thing. They really

are trying to get things sorted out. If you could see some of the legal

descriptions for claims under current rules,it would amaze you that

any could be found. Some are not even in the section shown on the

claim map. Yeah some guys don't even bother to look for a section

corner,and just guess.

Later placer claims are not so bad to locate,because most are located

by the section,quarter section or quarter,quarter section. If described

in this fashion,the BLM will hold the claimant to the actual section lines.

Lode claims usually follow the lode,and can run any direction,and be

in one or more sections or sub divisions. Most have really lousy

descriptions too. :laught16:

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Thanks out there to you Unc Ron.......

And Sawmill; you definitely know the guy I talked to :grrr01:

That GPS corner marking will be the _hit....thats for sure....

Really didn't see what you were talking about from Micro's post about "closed" claims....

I find alot of them doing record searches online using LR2000 database....

But when I asked him,"so if they are closed, does that mean that they are open for re-filing?"

He answered me with, "well, I would think so, wouldn't you?".................WTF.......... :WOW:

The reason he gave me for the "destroyed file"??.........the gov't must have run out of room for the 40,000 claims they have..

Was concerned about that one, because we retrieved ore from this location over 25yrs. ago.....

Figure it's worth taking another look, maybe filing a new one on top of it....oh well.........................~wyld~

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If you go down to the BLM and talk to the short lady, I think she is of "Spanish" descent, she can help you out. I believe her name is Shirley or something like that, maybe Susan. She's very kind and goes a long way to helping people understand these things. Also they can give you a map of the claim that should show a drawing exactly where the lode vein is.

If the claim status says "closed" then you can file on it. Before you go to the BLM office though to file the claim you'll need to file a piece of paper on the claim itself with your name/etc. Call and ask for the lady I told you about, she'll explain it all.

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Randy Wright

That lady named Shirley or Susan may be nice,but she forgot

to lay the real facts on you.

The BLM closes claims every day,and yes you can file. But lots

of the closed claims are closed because they were not legal to

file on to begin with.

That nice lady will take your money,smile and wish you a good

day. A couple months or so later you will be notified that your

claim is null and void,and the BLM is retaining your filing fees as

they are now earned money.

I know one group of claims that have went through that same

process at least 3 times.

The ultimate responsibility of determining legal open status on

a claim is left up to the claimant,and the BLM will not be liable for

any information given by BLM employees.

Also if they determine that you have damaged the land while

working under a void claim,they will come visit with you about

that little glitch.

I have a copy of the BLM claims adjudication hand book. It would

shock most folks to see how they ,are instructed to take your money,

knowing full well,that your claim filing is void,record the claim,and

keep the fees.

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Actually I didn't find that to be the case with her. I was trying to file on a claim close to ours that I didn't think was going to be renewed. She told me she could take the filing money, but if the claim turned out to be renewed they couldn't refund the money. She said I'd be better off waiting. Turns out the owners did renew that year.

Very kind. She coulda just took my $$$

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I'm sorry Randy, but wouldn't that be a no-brainer??

I'm not wanting to foresee the future; doubt that is available.....I'm not talking a "maybe non-renewal"........I'm talking about

filing over a "closed" claim.....

And for some silly darn reason; I figured somebody in that friggin office should be able to provide that simple ass answer....

And I guess if these people are volunteers; it just ain't gonna happen....

Doubtful that they have to meet any sort of criteria.......I mean, it IS the gov't. :laught16:

Might want to look up some of the closed and inactive claims in your area Randy.......little more of a sure bet for your filing

fees............................not much though. :angry-smiley-010: ~wyld~

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