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Running Quads & Trucks on Natural Gas???


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Yo All....I just found out about a movement going on, spearheaded by T. Boone Pickens, to reduce our country's dependence on foreign oil, partly by switching transportation fuel to natural gas...Does anyone know anything about that?...How difficult or expensive would it be to switch over trucks and quads that we use for prospecting? It sounds like a great idea to me and this Pickens seems to be stepping up to the plate at a time there doesn't seem to be any leadership in this country...Check it out: Pickens Plan...I joined up, but told them if Al Gore is involved I don't want anything to do with it... :outtahere: :laught16: Cheers, Unc

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Yo All....I just found out about a movement going on, spearheaded by T. Boone Pickens, to reduce our country's dependence on foreign oil, partly by switching transportation fuel to natural gas...Does anyone know anything about that?...How difficult or expensive would it be to switch over trucks and quads that we use for prospecting? It sounds like a great idea to me and this Pickens seems to be stepping up to the plate at a time there doesn't seem to be any leadership in this country...Check it out: Pickens Plan...I joined up, but told them if Al Gore is involved I don't want anything to do with it... :outtahere: :laught16: Cheers, Unc

I'm bett'n a nickel that someone will come up with something before the year 2050. I never heard of a way to store natural gas but I;m sure I'm behind times in that dept. too. Sure would like to stick it to them "oil" people by using something we got right here in the good old USA. Don't know if ya notice, but as oil prices go up, so does any other kind of energy source. Ya don't recon EXXON has their fingers in them pies too? Shouldn't my SS check go up just like everything else?

bill

"stuck in deming"

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Uncle Ron

I checked this out a couple weeks ago.

Sounds great------but. :grrr01:

Due to liability,tank cost, and CARB emissions standards

and regulations. You can't have the equipment installed

on a vehicle older than 2006,and only on certain models.

The retrofit cost from $15000.00 to $20,000.00.

A new vehicle can cost $20,000.00 extra ,just to run on

natural gas,and take up to a year to get.

There is only a hand full of licensed installers in the USA.

Each retrofit has to have its own CARB license,certification,

and EPA approval.

At the time I checked natural gas was 42 cents a gallon,and

there is lots of it. We used to run pump engines on natural gas.

There is still hundreds of them running on it now. All it takes

is a regulator and throttle body. These were hooked right into

the supply line,just like a house.

The tank for a vehicle is expensive,because of the high pressure

required to obtain enough volume.

Most of the cost is for the license,and permits required by the

loons in Washington.

T Boone Pickens is an old oil man. He just ordered one of the

largest wind generator orders that has been made. Maybe he

can sway some of the greenies in Washington to get real on

the natural gas thing too.

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Propane...Butane....Natural gas in vehicles has been around for many years.....

The first pickup I had on propane was in 1966....then when I traded for a new 1977 all I had

to do was switch the equipment to the new PU....back then cost of installation was around $500.00

and that included my 120 gal. propane tank....it would also burn butane the butane would freeze

in the winter but a mix of butane and propane gave great power and milage.....

Then around 1980 the gov. got to regulating the installations...fill ups....tax tag and things really

got screwed up big time....they even had cars specially rigged up with "sniffers" to find people

burning propane with out paying the taxes....besides propane being .30¢ a gal. then ...it burned

clean and was a great help to the engine....then with just the flick of a switch you were back

on gasoline.....

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Garimpo

Propane has been used for lots of years. It was simple and

cheap to convert older vehicles. But now it would be a night

mare to convert a newer engine to propane. Besides it cost

almost as much as gas,and the mileage is not as good.

Natural gas has been used for awhile too. But mostly by

large fleets or government agencies. The cost of conversion

has been subsidized by tax payers.

Kinda makes you wonder how much our politicians have got

paid from oil companies,and car makers,to ignore a energy

supply like natural gas. Also its kinda funny that natural gas

is one of the cleanest burning fuels,but has more EPA,Carb

and other impossible regulations than any other fuel.

It is ok and great to use it for everything else. Why does it

need to be regulated to death to use it in your car? :ph34r2: :ph34r2:

I am pretty sure the government needs to subsidize Vaseline. :ROFL:

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"with out paying the taxes"

Our government has always only done the right thing as long as they can tax it :twocents: :innocent0009: :laught16::laught16::laught16: the politions motto "if we cann't tax it; bring in the lobbiests who will pay" (if in doubt, watch the eddie murphy movie "The distingished gentalman" ):laught16::laught16::laught16::laught16:

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Uncle Ron,

Our school district bought into this natural gas boondogle about 10 years ago..........

They installed about a million dollar pump station to compress low pressure gas to high pressure.........

A section of our fleet (busses, trucks & vans) were converted or ordered to run on natural gas only...........

Most of the high pressure tanks have failed & the district was notified on the natural gas only vehicles parts would be discontinued..............so the vehicles are near worthless......

A van or truck that runs on natural gas can't even get accross town and back on one fill........for all the money you suposidly save, is spent by having to fill up more often because range is limited and paying personal to fill up more often.............no savings there..

Mileage per gallon is down & natural gas filling stations few...................+ high pressure tanks are bulky & don't fit well where gas tanks were........

My take is use natural gas to make electricity, not to power vehicles...........if you must use propane..........

I believe we are not doing enough to promote solar cells.........wonderer

Ps: sorry about the multiple edits as posting a reply times out if you take to long to type a reply to a post

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Right sawmill....a vehicle on propane will lose about 2-3 mpg and a slight decrease in power...

the biggest advantage to propane ( natural gas) is it burns complete...the motor stays clean

internally which gives it a much longer life...for the twenty years I used this fuel I also used

a synthetic engine oil and a much better oil filter so that I never changed the oil...just changed

out the filter every 25,000 miles...added another quart of syn. oil and all was great to go...and

like you say when I bought another new PU in 1988 the carb system was much improved and the

company (Chevy) said if I put it on propane they would void my warranty....the technology was

available to convert the newer carbs but without a warranty I decided not to.....a few months later

I talked to other people that did convert and all was okay...one major draw back to using propane

and possibly natural gas is the installer needs to know what their doing....if the adjustment on the

carb system is wrong it's just like the adjustment on a cutting torch inside the engine and the

valves don't last very long....

Now here in Brazil many of the cars and PU's run on Butane...all of the homes here have Butane

cooking stoves and the bottles are all 20 gal. bottles.....

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All of the buses in our public transit system here run on CNG and there are actually (I just checked ) many fill stations around. But the requirements to convert are overly repressive and can only be done on newer specially designated vehicles.............. Polititions can always find a way to ruin a good thing. Do a google search on Brown's gas for something else very interesting

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OK, guys, since we're on the subject, I found another way that supposedly will increase the milage we get, allowing us to afford to get out into the desert to hunt...

What's everyone's take on this: Gas4Free Cheers, Unc

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Unc...you are definitely hangin around the house to much...so why not give this system a try

and report back....

In the late 60's someone came out with a system that injected water into the carburetor and I

tried it on my mile long Mercury...if I remember right it made the car run smoother but I don't

remember about the gas milage....

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Well Uncle Ron,

Tried your link - - - - - no luck

Hell with all that gold your finding, you should be in tall clover.....

With all the snake oil salesman selling magnets to put on your fuel line, water injectors (and such) for the carborator , we all should be getting 50 miles to the gallon.........

As Garimpo said, try one out & give use a report on how well it works :innocent0009:

My neibor was a propane guy and run all his vehicles on propane, tanks were littler & more compact + there were more places to fillup.................also you could switch over to the gasoline tank if need be.........

wonderer

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I work for the gas co. here in phoenix. My work truck runs on either natural gas or gasoline. I fill up the CNG (compressed natural gas) tank on it and run until it is out, then it will automatically switch over to gasoline on its own without missing a beat.

It came from the factory with all the equipment installed so I am not sure what all a conversion would entail.

The tank fills to 3600 P.S.I. and depending on the size of tank as to how many gallons it takes to fill to reach 3600.

The miles per gallon do not seem to change much so the only benefit in a conversion would be the difference in price between CNG and gasoline.

CNG is quite a bit cheaper

The only down sides to it would be the cost of the conversion, and the lack of places to fill your tank. also maintenance costs on your vehicle will increase.

I do know a home fill station is available for sale, but it is expensive.

Hope this helps

PAPA

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Natural Gas Vehicle (NGV)

"Build vs. Buy

NGVs can be built from scratch to include the design enhancements described above. A brand-new natural-gas vehicle costs $4,000 to $8,000 more than a comparable gasoline vehicle. It's also possible to modify conventional gasoline vehicles to run on natural gas. This, too, can be expensive, with the modifications typically costing $3,000 to $5,000. Vehicles that run solely on natural gas are known as "dedicated" NGVs. Vehicles that can operate on both natural gas and gasoline are known as "bi-fuel" vehicles. In bi-fuel vehicles, the driver can safely switch from one fuel to another while driving."

"A natural-gas engine also includes forged aluminum, high-compression pistons, hardened nickel-tungsten exhaust valve seats and a methane-specific catalytic converter."

Above is from How Stuff Works - How Natural-gas Vehicles Work: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ngv.htm

There's a lot more info in the article. Especially about the gas cylinders that can be a hassle to install. Taking that into consideration along with the standard engine's internal modifications that should be done $3,000 to $5,000 doesn't sound high enough.

2008 Civic GX Natural Gas Vehicle (NGV) Civic style, fueled by clean natural gas. Advanced Technology Partial-Zero-Emission Vehicle. Starting at $24,590

2008 Civic Sedan Pricing options by starting MSRP $15,010 DX $16,960 LX $18,710 EX $19,910 EX-L (Actually the Civic NVG is $4680.00 to $9580.00 more than the Civic Sedan. From Honda.com)

Google search results for "natural gas for cars": http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&amp...G=Google+Search

I read up on hydrogen generator systems for cars, run your car on water, the other day. Do-it-yourselfers can buy plans for a few bucks to build a hydrogen generator or buy one with a complete installation kit for about $300. Most of these will work, but if you don't do internal modifications to your engine because of increased moisture it won't last. So you're talking several $1,000 in total conversion costs again.

With the bucks they are talking about I'll be keeping my old truck as is and putting gas in her when I can....post-3372-1216543570.gif

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Now here's some happy news:

"WASHINGTON (AP) — The political vision of a summer gas tax holiday died a quick death in Congress, losing to a view that federal excise taxes on gasoline and diesel fuel will have to go up if they go anywhere.

Despite calls from the presidential campaign trail for a Memorial Day-to-Labor Day tax freeze, lawmakers quickly concluded — with a prod from the construction industry — that having $9 billion less to spend on highways could create a pre-election specter of thousands of lost jobs.

Now, lawmakers quietly are talking about raising fuel taxes by a dime from the current 18.4 cents a gallon on gasoline and 24.3 cents on diesel fuel."

Read the whole story: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hmEsKCm...eFp53wD921BON80

Ah what the hell it's just another dime a gallon????post-3372-1216544782.gif

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OK, guys, since we're on the subject, I found another way that supposedly will increase the milage we get, allowing us to afford to get out into the desert to hunt...

What's everyone's take on this: Gas4Free Cheers, Unc

That is probably the same as Brown's gas. System uses electrolysis to convert water into hydrogen and injects it into intake, Increased gas mileage considerably. If the system is built correct, no moisture is injected into system.

Here are some independant reviews:

http://nbcreviews.com/waterfuelcell/browns...CFSY1agod6SG0lQ

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Honda is the only manufacturer in the USA that offers

a direct from the factory NGV personal use vehicle under

10,000 lbs gross weight. Their cost is under the norm

because they have absorbed most of the costs that haven't

been subsidized . Once they get enough of them on the road

that will change too. :laught16:

Ford,GM,and Chrysler sends their vehicles to independent

operators for retrofit. Even the gas company pickups are

just sent out as a basic unit ,and retrofitted before going to

the end user.

All three offer NG engines for commercial vehicles and motor

homes,but the retrofit is done elsewhere.

Type Questar Gas into search ,all the information is on their

site. I will try to add an attachment that tells it like it is. :Huh_anim]: FAQs_Converting_to_NGVs.pdf

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Back in the 70's and early 80's when I used to spin a wrench for my daily bread, I used to service US Gov't GSA verhicles. They were all retrofitted to run on CNG. As I remember, they lost a bit of HP and MPG but ran clean. The oil came out almost clear even after a few thousand miles, spark plugs wore out but did not foul, mufflers did not rust and overall, those early systems did not give much problems. In those days, cars already had electronic ignition but no computers nor cat converters so not sure how it would compare to today's motors. Uncle Ron, you should go talk to a generator repair shop because I believe some standby generators are still retrofitted to run on CNG to resolve the stale gasoline issue...

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That is probably the same as Brown's gas. System uses electrolysis to convert water into hydrogen and injects it into intake, Increased gas mileage considerably. If the system is built correct, no moisture is injected into system.

Here are some independant reviews:

http://nbcreviews.com/waterfuelcell/browns...CFSY1agod6SG0lQ

Regardless of what you call it hydrogen combustion exhaust is water vapor. Moisture is not injected into the system (engine) it is produced by the hydrogen combustion and will quickly corrode steal and cast iron parts. Like valves, valve seats, heads and exhaust systems, any parts in direct contact with the engines exhaust. So to get any longevity out of a vehicle you install a hydrogen generator on you need to replace the afore mentioned parts with parts that will not or will at least resist rust and corrosion. For an interesting read on the subject that is direct and in plain talk, Read This.

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Guest Potholes Bob-NM

Here's my cynical thoughts on natural gas/propane. If everyone started running their cars and trucks on gas, the oil companies would sure as hell get into the act, and the price of natural gas would sky rocket.

Remember in the 70s, when everyone started to go with diesels because the oil was much cheaper.,now that oil costs more than gasoline!

Then there are the countless stories of folks who invented a new type of Carb. or some other device that would make a car get fabulous mileage, and big oil would pay the inventor a million or more for the rights, and this device would never appear on the market.

The Germans invented a method to obtain fuel oil from common coal and ran their vehicles on this stuff throughout WW2.

There was a great novel (and movie) on this , I believe the title was "The Formula", after the war, big oil got a hold of this formula and made it dissapear!

Potholes

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Going back in me memory banks, where I keeps my mothballs, sometime in the 60's, I'm think'n, some fellow come up with an engine that was getting 60+ mpg running on regular gasoline. Well, from what I recall, the engine rights were bought up for a considerable fortune, and Ford Motor Company shelved that engine never to be seen again. I tried the water injection method and from memory again, that didn't do nothing but rust my mufflers. When I worked for The University of Texas, all new service vehicles were required to be propane/gasoline. That didn't work either. The way I see it is that no matter what new technology hits the market, you gonna pay. Days of free and cheap went out with the hippies.

Just my quarters worth, which ain't worth a dime. :grrr01:

bill

"stuck in deming"

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  • 3 weeks later...

I worked on a ranch near Reserve ,NM one summer and we used 4 Horse B&S water pumps to pump water to cows. They ran on propane, very simple! The rancher had drilled a 1/4" hole in the air cleaner, the 6 Gallon propane tanks had the standard regulater like you would use on an R/V. It discharged in to a 1/4"copper tube that had a 1/4" needle valve on it You started the engine on gasoline and after it warmed up and was pumping you turned the gasoline off as you opened the needle valve from the propane tank. Speed control was then controled by the needle valve, the throttle on the carb being set near wide open, They would run for hours on hours with no attention.

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What we really need is cars and trucks that will run on BULL SH**, theres an endless supply coming out of Wash. D.C from the White House, Congress and the Senate. We would never run out! :laught16::laught16::laught16: Grubstake

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Great ideas and stories ,boys.In 25 years those of us still around will laugh at the old means of fueling vehicles,heating etc.Laugh and tell stories over a beer/or bowl of oatmeal.We might even speak a few dialects of Chinese..... :laught16: ........1987 Mitsubishi Mighty Max pickup..2.0 4 cyl ..5 speed...28 highway.......Dave

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What we really need is cars and trucks that will run on BULL SH**, theres an endless supply coming out of Wash. D.C from the White House, Congress and the Senate. We would never run out! :laught16::laught16::laught16: Grubstake

Also we have our local politicians on the state, county and municipal levels to add to the endless B.S. supply. post-3372-1218597156.gif

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