Please Read! Our rights threatened again

[Jim P.]

Hi Bill and all, Please click the link below. Then click Read an overview of House Bill 2573. House Bill 2573 imposes a fee and other requirements for driving "off road" in AZ :grrr01: Once again, we have to pay for someone else's stupidity! Don't think it will end here, this is just the tip of the ice burg. It won't be long before OHVs are only allowed in designated areas. It looks like there might be a run on burros again :icon1:

Thanks for checking it out. Later...Jim P.

PS. Bill, how do I correct my post header?

AZG&F offroad legislatoin

[El Dorado]

I hate when California starts this crap and then it just spreads to other states. You have to pay to have a freedom removed..... liberal crud for sure!

[Dakota Slim]

This looks more like a promise than a threat. I'd suggest AZ residents start calling the sponsors of this bill at their offices and homes to find out what it is they really really want because I don't think you want any of them in office.

[Uncle Ron]

There is a link on the site where you can find out who your senator and representatives are. I just emailed all of mine with the following:

I live in Wickenburg and am a frequent outdoor enthusiast and ATV rider. House Bill 2573: Off-highway Vehicle Recreation Bill will severely and unfairly restrict the use of ATV's which I and other prospectors and hunters utilize to gain access to remote areas. While there are many AVT riders who simply ride for the enjoyment, I and others like me use our ATV's as a tool rather than as a sport. I am urging you to stop the further consideration of this bill. It is one more incursion into our rights.

Thank you.

Ronald Long

Address

[Lve2fsh]

Here in Nevada our politicians tell us that we are one of the few western states that do not require any type of tag or permit to ride our quads.

Naturally they also tell us that we need to be like everyone else and soon we will be paying out for something that has always been free.

It's always about taking more money away from us to make our lives easier.

[Goldfinger]

Hi Guys:

Not that I'm for this bill or anything but there seems to be a great deal of support for it from quite a few outdoors groups for some reason.

Steve

[mbcougartl]

There is a link on the site where you can find out who your senator and representatives are. I just emailed all of mine with the following:

I live in Wickenburg and am a frequent outdoor enthusiast and ATV rider. House Bill 2573: Off-highway Vehicle Recreation Bill will severely and unfairly restrict the use of ATV's which I and other prospectors and hunters utilize to gain access to remote areas. While there are many AVT riders who simply ride for the enjoyment, I and others like me use our ATV's as a tool rather than as a sport. I am urging you to stop the further consideration of this bill. It is one more incursion into our rights.

Thank you.

Ronald Long

Address

I totally agree with you! This House Bill 2573 is invalid! :no: :outtahere:

[Ted Scott]

Locate your district

Locate your State Senator

Here's mine, where's yours?

Tom O'Halleran 1 R tohalleran@azleg.gov 303A 926-5584 417-3101

[Jesse F.]

Just one more excuse for a government agency to steal your money and say they need it, or your privilege to hunt and fish or ride a ohv will be endangered . With as much money that Game And Fish recieves from a Hunting licences $32.25 and a Fishing Licences $23.50. Trout stamps $15.75, Two pole stampts $6.00, Migratory bird stamp[Dove]$4.50, 12AN Kaibab Habitat Stamp[DEER]$15.00, Waterfowl stamp[Ducks]$8.75, Federal WaterFowl stamp[Ducks]$15.00, Colorado River Stamp $3.00. (NON-PERMIT TAGS, ELK $114, DEER $34.75,Fall Turkey $18.00, Fall Bear $22.25, Mountian Lion $14.50) (HUNT PERMIT TAGS obtained through draw process, ELK $121, ANTELOPE $85.00, DEER $42.25, TURKEY $25.50, JAVELINA $28.75, BIGHORN SHEEP $272.50, BUFFALO BULL $1,095.00, BUFFALO COW $659.50, BUFFALO YEARLING $362.75, BEAR $29.75, SANDHILL CRANE $22.50, PHEASANT $7.50 Game And Fish will Issue 26,089 Elk tags this year for the BIG GAME DRAW Check this out

(26,089. ELK TAGS) :coffeetime:

20,872. of the Tags will go to ARIZONA residents, $121.00 for tag, $32.25 For Hunting Licences =$153.25 Per Person X 20,872. =$3,198,634.00 Cash

5,217. of the Tags will go to NON- residents (20% non-resident cap) $595.00 For Tag, $151.25 For hunting Licences=$746.25 per person X 5,217=$3,893,186.25

GAME AND FISH WILL MAKE ($7,091,820.25) DOLLARS! :hmmmmmm: Just from this ELK draw alone. Just imagine How much money they make per year when you add, DEER, ANTELOPE, BEAR, TURKEY, BUFFALO, JAVELINA, BIGHORN SHEEP!

What I'M Gettin at is that GAME AND FISH makes MILLIONs Of Dollars To Help manage the ARIZONA WILDLIFE Which I think is a Good IDEA! BUT THEY DONT DO A darn THING BUT SIT ON THERE AS***ES AND watch or Arizona wildlife go to hell, when they sould be building trick tanks, repairing water tanks, and fixing the lakes up north that have holes and broken dam's that can be patched , and improving the wildlife habitat. Anyone that hunts will tell you that hunting in arizona is really going down hill, Game and FISH likes to blame it on drought and Issue 1000 permits to kill the doe on the kaibab because the say theres not enough winter range to support them, BULLS**T I have been huntinig there since 1998 and theres more than enough range to support those deer. Yeah! whatever Game and FISH Thanks for mismanaging our wildlife and not giving the arizona community there monies worth for a quality hunt !!!!!!!! Our wildlife is just one BIG FAT PAY CHECK to them! :ph34r2: They will do and say anything for more money and we all know its political bull! Just another way for uncle sams hand to find its way deeper into your pocket.

[Denny]

Welcome to Cal if ornia.Sorry guy,s this crap starts here and spreds as %$#& does.{Smears on everything}

Call your people send those fax,s it is the only chance there is.

Make sure they are accountable for there spending.If they get these funds do you think they will be spend these fund as appropreiated {sp}?.No way in hell.It chap,s my ass that they can spend and run OUR Goverment in a way that if we ran our buisness the same way we would be in jail.

[DealinDavid]

:angry-smiley-010: I emailed the powers to be in district 24 and got this reply.

David,

This bill is necessary to protect the privledge. To many people are

abusing our lands and this tool is necessary to deal with the growing

problem.

Sincerely,

Representative Ulmer

This woman can't even use spellcheck, so how is she to make new laws that make sense?????

[Denny]

funny how it sounds like they have made up there minds,And it is in yours best interest because of some one else.Geeeez.Does that hold up in court now. :confused0013:

[Uncle Ron]

Yo All...I contacted Senator Ron Gould who I understand is a leader in the fight against this bill...He wrote me back and so I invited him to post on the main four AZ gold forums to try to rally the troops...I hope he does...Here's his info page... http://www.azleg.state.az.us/MembersPage.a...;Legislature=48 ...You can click on his email and indicate your opposition to the bill...Cheers, Unc

[Jesse F.]

Yes sadly it probably would hold up in court. For the right price anything goes in court.

[Ted Scott]

Well, I hope this doesn't stop others in District 24 from taking up Senator Ulmers time with phone calls as well as hand written letters. She should never hear the end of it!

Hopefully Uncle Ron's Senator will post. I'm still waiting to get a phone call back from mine which I've been assured will occur. Phone calls are really important. e-mails can be answered boiler plate by interns and discarded.

Call and demand to speak with your senator.

[Jim P.]

Thank you, everyone! If more people would act like you guys, there would never be this sort of legislation to worry about. Here's a prime example of the mentality of our "Representatives"

"David,

This bill is necessary to protect the privledge. To many people are

abusing our lands and this tool is necessary to deal with the growing

problem.

Sincerely,

Representative Ulmer "

Privilege??? According to the Mining laws and the Fifth Amendment according to some scholars, We have the RIGHT to access our public lands.

If our elected officials don't know the difference, what hope do we have?

Later...Jim P.

[GotGold]

.....This bill is necessary to protect the privledge(d)

Because only those on the inside will continue to have access. I can just imagine in the years after I'm gone that my kids will to need to purchase (fee) a "sticker" to affix to their (PICK ONE)..... (1) horses/mules rear end, (2) mountain bike or (3) boots/hiking shoes etc.!

To many people are abusing our lands and this tool is necessary to deal with the growing problem.

Sincerely,

Representative Ulmer

"Tool".....give me a frickin break!.....At least "Snap-On" knows how to make "tools" to fix things, and in most cases' it only takes a few to correct the problem and they guarantee quality and performance or your money back.

Let me see hummm :hmmmmmm: .....how many of these legislative "tools" are on the books today for AZ and other States that are worthless, ineffective and continue to be "maufactured", and who continues to pay for this? The law abiding citizen. The "tools" currently in effect today already allow to much power to the F&G and they sit on their butts wanting more???

As to....."To many people are abusing our lands".....I say, "Take a good look in the Mirror" Representative Ulmer!

Just a thought.....if we created a continuous lake frontage on the US side of the Mexican border from CA to TX and stocked it with some endangered specie and fauna, could we be assured that F&G would be on top of the situation? Oh.....and would the "literal" trash i.e. plastic bags, clothing, shoes etc. finally be mitagated?

Gary

[Dakota Slim]

How does one deal with a "growing problem"? Common sense says you enforce the existing laws. Obviously the use of ATV's is growing. The population is growing. If they can't enforce existing laws, how will they enforce new laws?

Banning the use of off road vehicles in Arizona is effectively taking them away from the people. Are you going to walk 5, 10 or 20 miles to your favorite desert location? I think not. Will you ride your bicycle? Maybe get a horse?

Are you prepared to let some bureaucrat tell you where you can go and where you can't?

[ROGERD]

Gentlemen, :icon_mrgreen:

I personally know Sen. Ron Gould as he is a resident of Lake Havasu. Before I sold my sign company and retired, we made all of Ron's signs for his Air Conditioning Company and he did work for me on my commercial building and home. I also supported Ron for the Senate ( Republican) and I am glad to see he is leading the fight on this issue.

I will email his office this morning and see what we can do to oppose this bill individually or as a group.

I posted about this bill when it first came out for consideration and I emailed the Fish & Game and others in opposition. Of course there was no reply.

Thanks

[El Dorado]

In Ca we at the grassroots level made enough of an impression on the Gov that he shitcanned AB1032. Do eveything you can, and don't let up!

[Nugget Shooter]

Hey Roger,

I think allot of support can be drummed up here! I will help if I can. Man this S&%# pisses me off.

Jim Thanks for posting and what do you want the title changed to?

Man I love the true American spirit shown here when this stuff shows up :bowdown:

Bill

[Jim P.]

Just a spelling error Bill, but it looks like it miraculously fixed itself. :innocent0009: Thanks...Jim

[Jim P.]

Hi all, I received a reply from one of my Representatives, Bob Stump. He writes:

"Sen. Jake Flake's committee is this bill's next stop. You might drop him a line to share your thoughts.

The bill goes to Transportation after that. Sen. Ron Gould is that committee's chairman.

Thanks again.

Best,

Bob Stump"

So, if you would like to offer your opinion Here's Senator Flakes email. jflake@azleg.gov

Uncle Ron already posted Senator Gould's info but here it is again. rgould@azleg.gov

Here are a few more thoughts on the subject. What can we offer as an alternative to this Bill? My fear is if we stop this bill from becoming law, something worse will follow, like a voter initiative. I can only think of a few groups who are organized and funded well enough to get an initiative on the ballot and it's not prospectors or ATVers. How do we stop the destruction of our public lands without giving up our freedom? The Game and Fish department has "Operation Game Thief" for poachers, why not try something like that for trail-blazers?For me, it's not so much about the fees or permits as it is about language like this;

"A person to SHALL NOT drive an off-highway vehicle...

ON ROADS, TRAILS, ROUTES OR AREAS CLOSED AS INDICATED IN RULES OR

REGULATIONS OF A FEDERAL AGENCY, THIS STATE, A COUNTY OR A MUNICIPALITY OR BY

PROPER POSTING IF THE LAND IS PRIVATE LAND.

4. OVER UNIMPROVED ROADS, TRAILS, ROUTES OR AREAS UNLESS DRIVING ON

ROADS, TRAILS, ROUTES OR AREAS WHERE SUCH DRIVING IS ALLOWED BY RULE OR

REGULATION.

B. A PERSON SHALL DRIVE AN OFF-HIGHWAY VEHICLE ONLY ON ROADS, TRAILS,

ROUTES OR AREAS THAT ARE OPENED AS INDICATED IN RULES OR REGULATIONS OF A

FEDERAL AGENCY, THIS STATE, A COUNTY OR A MUNICIPALITY."

As long as I follow the existing law, why should my access by whatever means I chose be denied? If we give in to this language, we are at the mercy of our government. I'm tired and thinking about this makes me too angry to think straight right now, but I know there is a better solution. Please offer any ideas here or to our legislators.

Thanks. Later...Jim P.

[Jim P.]

HI all, one more thing I forgot to bring up. I find no provision in this bill for the state to collect the funds. Take a look at this from the bill.

"Any governmental agency, corporation or other individual that

16 conducts a training and OR educational course, OR BOTH, that is approved by

17 the ARIZONA GAME AND FISH department, THE UNITED STATES BUREAU OF LAND

18 MANAGEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES FOREST SERVICE OR THAT IS APPROVED OR

19 ACCEPTED BY THE ALL-TERRAIN VEHICLE SAFETY INSTITUTE OR THE NATIONAL

20 OFF-HIGHWAY VEHICLE CONSERVATION COUNCIL may collect a fee FROM THE

21 PARTICIPANT that is reasonable and commensurate for the training and that

22 IS DETERMINED BY THE DIRECTOR OF THE ARIZONA

23 GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT BY RULE."

Anyone can give the training and collect the money. Are they doing it out of the goodness of their hearts and turning the money over to the state? I doubt it. Take a look at all the letters of support form OHV dealers. Do you think money could be the motivator? What a great deal for them, they guaranty their customers will continue to have a place to use their products plus they get to charge them for the government mandated training. Now that's the American way. I'm sure the G&F or state would charge a licensing fee to the instructors, but most of the money would stay in their hands.

Rob, Bill and Chris, maybe you could get in on the action. Lobby the legislature for a prospector's permit that requires a training course for all prospecting, approved equipment, and designated areas to prospect. Sound like a win-win if I ever heard one. I'm being sarcastic of course, please don't take that as a swipe in any way.

I don't want to distract attention from the threat to our rights to access by bringing this up, but I thought it might help explain why so many dealers support the bill.

Later...Jim P.

[Think Big]

What is needed is a stupid House bill, bill. Anyone trying to pass a stupid bill must pay $1000.000 and maybe they would think and wise up befor trying to pass such Hog snot. :hmmmmmm: