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New Classification for Franconia

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All,

Here is an E-mail that I just received from Devin Schrader, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory at the University of Arizona. These irons will be the focus of an abstract that will be presented this March in Houston, TX. at the 38th LPSC.

Click on the link for the classification information.

(Quote)

Hello Mr. Smaller and Mr. Meyers,

I'm am very happy to inform you that your meteorite was accepted and is

published online; it is called Sacramento Wash 005. Thank you both for

supplying samples for classification and for your patience. It is quite

an interesting meteorite and therefore took a bit longer than normal.

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45974

It is also the focus of LPSC abstract which will be published online

next month, and will be presented this March in Houston, TX at the 38th

LPSC. It focuses on how we think it formed, and its relationship to

other known meteorites. I've included both of you in the Acknowledgments

section, to thank you for your samples. As soon as it is published I

will forward you both a copy.

If either of you have any questions, don't hesitate to email me.

Thank you,

Devin Schrader

(Un-Quote)

:woohoo: Been a long time coming......

Jim

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glad you finly got the info back on em man and grats

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Congrats Jim...are they classifying these irons as a separate fall unrelated to the Chondrites found there? If so, how do the irons attached to the chondrites fit in this new picture?

Fred

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Amen Jim!!!!

Finally, after digging up all that train-wreck shrapnel that just happens to have impactites, flow lines, lip-over,and attached chondritic materiel, there 's gonna be a reckoning! Thank You Jim for your tireless efforts to get some acknowledgement for these interesting, and under-appreciated phenomenons. These unique beauties deserve some attention - I don't think there could be many other strewfields with a similar situation. Ahhhh........., the sweet smell of legitamacy!

Thank You So Much Jim,

Ben

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Hi Jim. Congratulations on hitting the history books again. :whoopie: I was out today and found 7 very small irons. They are

getting tougher to capture. Will try a little different area tomorrow. Forgot to bring peanuts this time. --Perry--

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FINALLY! :whoopie:

Congrats Jim, your tenacity and patience have finally paid off!

Del

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Jim

Hot doggies!!! :whoopie: Sure took some time. :coffeetime: Your famous now!!!. Glad you participated in the DVD. I could not afford you now you handsome devil.

Congratulations you are the man. :bowdown:

Wayne

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Hi All

Here is Jim in the field when we shot the DVD in Franconia. Again CONGRATULATIONS!!! Jim.

Wayne

post-1528-1200443624_thumb.jpg

post-1528-1200443802_thumb.jpg

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I'm proud to say I've got a gorgeous 5 gram piece of this new classification!

Del

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G'Day Jim

Well done mate, now you just have to get that wash changed to Smaller Wash sounds much better :wubu: :wubu:

Cheers Johnno

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Jim, Congrats my friend!!! :whoopie: :wubu: All the hard work, effort and diligence paid off, not to mention the patience. I'm glad to see your efforts were not in vain, and not lost to science or in the mail. I guess all that "dragging foot" :laught16: helped too to maintain a piece of history and space. Congrats again. Jason :;):

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What can I say but "BOOYAH"! :bowdown: Congratulations Jim and I am just glad to say I know someone famous now. :yourock:

So, when and where is the party going to take place? :whoopie:

Aloha,

Stan aka Kaimi

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There is a lot of CROW to be eaten now! :laught16: Thanks for your patience and tenacity on this one Jim.

Just goes to show that self imposed experts are just that..........self imposed experts. :laught16:

Congratulations!!!

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AndI see that there are still some "experts" :smrt1: that say there cannot be irons with chrondites attached to them. :hmmmmmm: Guess they havnt seen Dels specimen as well as a bunch of others shown on this forum. Oh well, what can I say about these "experts". They may one day see the light and come around to our way of thinking.

Aloha,

Stan aka Kaimi

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All,

I thank all of you for your kind comments. I personally feel that it was a group endeavor, most all of you believed that the little irons that you were finding were extra-terrestrial. You provided me with the support that I needed to gather more information and log it. The mapping of the Franconia strewnfield would not have been possible without all your help. There are many things to be learned about that field and I hope that ongoing research will ultimately provide a DNA (Geochemistry makeup) match and we will know which H-Chondrite shed all the irons that we been finding. It is entirely possible that more than one H-Chondrite is responsible. I have been leaning more toward the Buck Mountain Wash H3-5 as it has some rather large metal veining. The Franconia H5 also has large metal veins and shows rare metallic copper as does the SacWash-005.

Fredmason asked a very good question about the irons that have been found with chondritic material attached. .They do fit into the big picture quite well and may just be the solution to the puzzle. Some of these pieces are going to be studied along with small irons that are totally liberated from parent body material.

It is frustrating for most all of the people that have hunted Franconia and found a meteorite to understand that what they have found may be any one of the 12 or more classifications for that field. Unless you have every single piece that you find classified, then what you have is a Franconia Area Meteorite.

The irons and irons with small amounts of chondritic material attached can now be referred to as SacWash-005, which is a Troilite rich ungrouped Iron, metal and silicate inclusions share affinities to H type material.

Wayne, Thank you for posting a picture of my 54 grammer and the 43 grammer that was classified.

I will post some close ups at a later date. I think that Bill S. posted a close up for me sometime back, I have looked but could not find it.

Jim

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Hello Mr. Smaller and Mr. Meyers,

I'm am very happy to inform you that your meteorite was accepted and is

published online; it is called Sacramento Wash 005.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Congrat's Jim and Mr. Meyers.... :whoopie:

That's one great accomplishment. I'll be back out in the field this Springtime or sooner,

jim "hawk" Shorten :coffeetime:

Don't forget the Tucson Gem show coming up this Feb. 2 to 16 :whoopie:

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Congratulations Jim, you sure were persistent on them being irons from outer space.

So I can call the ones in my hand (Sacramento Wash 005)?

What about this little guy (Chondrite with little iron in it)?

Again Congratulations! its got to feel GOOD :woohoo:

Mike

post-1536-1200602581_thumb.jpg

post-1536-1200602671_thumb.jpg

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Wow it looks like people are starting to sell the irons on eBay now-

eBay Auction

Del

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Congratulations Jim, you sure were persistent on them being irons from outer space.

So I can call the ones in my hand (Sacramento Wash 005)?

What about this little guy (Chondrite with little iron in it)?

Again Congratulations! its got to feel GOOD :woohoo:

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for the congrats.....

Those are some really nice irons, I especially like the bottom 3 in your hand, they look like they were liberated in a high level breakup as they show more ablation and impacts. The specimens with chondritic material attached are few and far between. The one that you show there, IMHO is probably a product of a low altitude breakup since there does not seem to be a visible fusion crust on the fresh break.

I will be referring to all my Franconia irons as Sacramento Wash 005, the irons with less than 50% chondrite material attached, I will call SW005 with some chondrite material attached. If more than 50% chondrite is attached, I intend to refer to it as a Franconia area chondrite with a large metallic inclusion. I am far from being an expert at anything, these are just the references that I plan to use. I am sure that some expert or so called expert will eventually voice an opinion.

Keep up the great finds, you and Paul are 2 of the most persistent meteorite hunters that I have ever met. Some people are just plain lucky, you 2 create your own luck.

Jim

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Congratulations Jim, you sure were persistent on them being irons from outer space.

So I can call the ones in my hand (Sacramento Wash 005)?

What about this little guy (Chondrite with little iron in it)?

Again Congratulations! its got to feel GOOD :woohoo:

Mike

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow Mike, those are some beauties, I really like the Chondrite with the metallic inclusion, she's a beauty..... :whoopie:

When I chatted with Denny Asher, he had a slice of Franconia with a large metal inclusion. Interesting on the theory of the Core (iron), Mantel (stony/iron) and crust (Chondrite) idea. Makes you wonder if the Asteroid belt was a planet that exploded, expelling it's contents, huh.... Jim "hawk" :confused0013:

Again, congrats on those fine finds, :o) :coffeetime:

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All,

It is frustrating for most all of the people that have hunted Franconia and found a meteorite to understand that what they have found may be any one of the 12 or more classifications for that field. Unless you have every single piece that you find classified, then what you have is a Franconia Area Meteorite.

Hi Jim...12 or more classifications...that is not to be confused with 12 or more separate falls, is it? If there are that many types in the one area and from the same fall the source would have to be a swarm of meteors or a minor planet that had broke apart and somehow got caught in the Earths gravitational field...kind like what happened to the comet that hit Jupitor some years ago...I am just curious and I certainly am not claiming any high level of knowledge on the subject...mere speculation.

Fred

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Hi Jim...12 or more classifications...that is not to be confused with 12 or more separate falls, is it? If there are that many types in the one area and from the same fall the source would have to be a swarm of meteors or a minor planet that had broke apart and somehow got caught in the Earths gravitational field...kind like what happened to the comet that hit Jupitor some years ago...I am just curious and I certainly am not claiming any high level of knowledge on the subject...mere speculation.

Fred

Fred,

I also have no high level of knowledge on the subject but do have my ideas about the Franconia strewnfield with reference to the area that I have mapped. The area has been subjected to (Finding a needle in the hay stack) type of pressure. Hardly a stone left unturned. The area is conducive to preserving meteorites for thousands of years. The theory that every square acre on earth holds remnants of meteorites, be they pin head size and up. I believe that Franconia has seen several major falls and numerous other falls. Material that has been sent in for classification has produced 12+ separate meteorites, all of these being either L or H Chondrites and the irons that are thought to have been born from an H-Chondrite. At the present, there are 3 L classifications with the Palo Verde L6 producing the most material found. There has not been enough pairing of the H-Chondrites to say which one scattered the most material. I believe that either the Franconia H5 or the Buck Mountain Wash H3-5 are leading candidates for this honor. We may never know unless more material is studied, this endeavour is expensive and those doing the testing are more into new falls and finds.

Also just a thought of mine, if you send off 6 pieces of the same meteorite to 6 institutions, you will probably get back at least 2 different classifications with 4 pairings.

Some have the theory that Franconia got hit with a dirty snow ball type meteor. This may very well be something that is possible, I do not know. I do know that the different terresteral ages of the meteorites that have been classified out of the Franconia field, totally dispel this theory.

Also keep in mind that dry lakes seem to produce many different classifications in relatively small areas as compared to the total size of Franconia.

Jim

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Thanks Jim, if I understand correctly...you are saying that there has been several different falls over time rather than one big fall with diverse material mixed in? I wonder why that would be so obvious in Franconia but the Gold Basins are mostly from one fall...if my factoids are correct....yes, I know a couple of others were found but they appear to be singles...

More speculation; perhaps the eddy currents of our solar system, galaxy and even the Universe have predictable patterns where the flotsam and jetsom of space congregates...Franconia for instance???????

Fred

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