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About gollumses

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  • Birthday 03/18/1963

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    Arizona Vagrant
  1. Clay, Maybe you should reread this entire thread to see where smarta$$ed remarks started. All I did was come in to add knowledge to BMc's initial question. The fact that I take a less than kissbutt reaction to people making snide comments from the Peanut Gallery is strictly my lack of patience with BS. What you think about my statements should be after you make a statement regarding how BMc was treated............and before anybody gets any ideas........I don't know who BMc is. I have zero knowledge about anything to do with BMc other than this thread. Bedrock Bob, Depending on who you are, you may be absolutely correct. I don't know anything about you. If you thought my comment was directed at you, maybe that says more about you than me or my comment? What is your real name? You have mine. Are you someone that I would know (or heard of) if I told you that my friends over the years in the Caballo, San Andres, and Fray Cristobal Mountains go back to the 1920s (although the two from the 1920s have since passed away)? Friends working the Organs and Cookes Peak since the 1970s-80s? AU Seeker, Thanks for the info, but as I stated in my post, my comment was not directed at any person in particular, but if someone took offense, maybe it was their conscience. My comment was also only made after several episodes of snide dismissive remarks from a couple of posters. Just look at the comments regarding Red_Desert's "Mesoamerican" Post. Instead of being smarta$$es and insulting of Red_Desert, they may want to actually learn that the term "Mesoamerican" doesn't just refer to the physical boundaries from Central Mexico to about the Northern border of Panama. The term "Mesoamerican" refers to the tribes that have made up that area since about 700BCE. Funny thing, the Aztecs were Mesoamerican. The Maya were Mesoamerican. The Toltecs were Mesoamerican. That said, the Aztecs claimed their ancestral homeland was far to the North of Tenochtitlan in a place called Aztlan. That would make a Mesoamerican Site in America. Here is a picture of a Mayan Glyph Tile found in a cave in the Superstition Moumtains in Arizona: Around the turn of the century (about 1908), a Park Service Supervisor in an official report stated that a Spanish Mission Site was built on top of an old Aztec/Maya Temple. A friend asked me to help them find the site. He is an academic, and even he was hesitant about officially reporting some of the stuff we found, as it may have impacted his career. Here is what was left of an Aztec Jaguar/Warrior Panel Carving (heavily eroded): Also near the Superstition Mountains in a place called Hieroglyphic Canyon, a large rock was shown by the Sacaton Pima Tribe that several Archaeologists confirmed was a petroglyph of the Mayan Calendar. A group of Mormons moved it to the Mormon Temple at Mesa, Az. That was 1931 (IIRC). So those would be considered "Mesoamerican" Sites even though they are far to the North of where the borders of Mesoamerica are currently thought to be. There are a ton more stories that have no hard/direct evidence.
  2. Don't know what part of NM you are in, but two large caches of gold bars were found using a combination of a map and monuments shown on the map. There are also tons of monuments along the "El Camino Real de Tierra Adentro" from Mexico City to Santa Fe. I'll explain for those smarta$$es among you who are mentally limited: Nowadays if you are driving from Mexico City to Santa Fe, you follow street signs from El Paso del Norte (El Paso) that shows you are on Highway 25 through Las Cruces and Albuquerque, through to Santa Fe. Imagine it's 1620. El Camino Real de Tierra Adentro was a long road through the wilderness. Almost 1600 miles through some nasty deserts and mountains. First, you have to show where the trail is. Official maps were expensive and could become unusable with one big rainstorm and/or flood. Because the road was so long, you also couldn't bring all the water you need. There needed to be a way to show where there were springs and sources of water the entire way. Now, closer to Mexico City, where there was a lot of population, it was an actual road (these pics are not mine, I pulled them off of the internet): Here is a section of the Camino Real near Zacatecas, Mex. For those that don't know, Zacatecas is in the mountains: ......and here are a couple from areas North of the current US/Mexico Border: In the 17th Century, maps MIGHT have been accurate to within a couple of miles (if you even had an official map). Markers and Monuments were needed to show travelers where the trail was, where water sources were. Now to the subject of Poodles. LOL I'm still on the fence with this one. Since Chuck Kenworthy included this in his book, I have to assume that this was written about somewhere in the documents he received from Libraries and Museums over the years. Without knowing for certain, my guess is that while building a Camino Real (Royal Road), the builders/surveyors came across a large rock that looked like a Poodle, so they made the connection. I have seen nothing in any official Spanish relacion, jornada, or cedula that mentions the repeated use of Poodles as a monument denoting a Royal Road. In order for the Poodle Theory to have any kind of provenance (to me) there would need to be several instances of the Poodle Monuments along Royal Roads. Luckily, we know the routes of the four largest Spanish Royal Roads, but since it has nothing to do with treasure or mines, most put it low on their list to research (myself as well). Mike EDIT: While Kenworthy's Pic does kind of look like a Poodle in a sitting upright pose, I just hear in my head "There is no Dana.....only ZUUL!" LOL
  3. Hey FlakMagnet, Don't think entire owl body. Just think the head with large round eyes and a short sharply hooked beak. There are about a half dozen symbols cut into that rock formation. In this case, the owl means this spot is where you get the wisdom regarding everything in this canyon. Its a very interesting place. The owl you can see as long as you are line of sight with the face. The Bird, you can see easily for about 60 degrees as you are hiking along the canyon. Its about eight feet tall and sits on top of a ridge that's 3500 feet in elevation. The face, I couldn't say, although it looks 100% man made. Without knowing the area, it could be 1000 years old, or it could be two weeks old. I also don't know the hardness of the rock. See, the features are quite sharp, so the rock is either very hard or it isn't very old. There are some large monuments that include both cut rock and shadows. I have a 50 foot tall heart cut into the side of a mountain near Joshua Tree (Ca). Its meant to be seen from a good distance. There are several large boulders placed in different spots around the periphery of the heart. So.......you have to be within 20 degrees (angle) either side to see it. The way the boulders are placed, before about 10am and after 3pm, shadows are cast across the heart making it impossible to see. In the Coronado National Forest, there is face (of either Coronado or Christ) that can only be seen in the Fall in the early morning. While I have several modern digital pics of the face, this pic is an old 35mm. There was no Photoshop of the pic. The rocks were cut in such a way as to cast the shadows that make up the face in the early morning for just a few months every year. Mike
  4. Its well known that Spanish mixed some of their signs in with pre-existing native petroglyphs and (rarely) pictographs, but in this case, I believe these are all Spanish in origin as they gave specific clues that led to a specific place. Now, as to specifically around Prescott and the Bradshaws. The Spanish have been in the area since 1540 when Coronado named the area around Jerome, Az the "Montanas Azul" (or Blue Mountains). A guy that has a piece of land on Orme Road (in between Hwy 169 and I17) found a Spanish Morion Helmet while clearing some of the land. One of the mines in the Bradshaws that is still being worked was founded by the Spanish in the mid-1600s under another name. The markers used for the original Spanish Mine were registered (and you can still see them) in the Mission Records at the San Javier del Bac Mission. The Peralta family (different than Lost Dutchman Peraltas) owned and operated the Valenciana Mine down near Bumblebee since the late 1700s (IIRC). BMc: First the bad news. I don't see anything that is a 100% monument. The last pic "COULD" be a heart at an angle. You need to know something about authentic monuments/markers. If the monument/marker is supposed to be a solitary one, there will 99% be some kind of verification cut into the rock showing it is man formed and not just "fortunate erosion". If the monument/marker is part of a trail of monuments/markers that somewhere it doesn't need verification as the monuments/markers that come before and after ARE the verification. Here are a couple of monuments that are easily identifiable as man made. Although you may not know what they mean, you know they are man made: Bird Monument in Anza-Borrrego Desert: A wise old owl in Southern Arizona: Enjoy, Mike
  5. Came across this while looking for something else, and thought I might be able to shed some light on the subject. My name is Mike McChesney, and on the forums I go by either my actual name or Gollum/Gollumses. I have been a Prospector/Treasure Hunter for about 28 years. MBc, don't let them dogpile you! Learn the facts and fight back! LOL I lived in SoCal for about 25 years before moving near Prescott in 2017. My ex girlfriend and I met a guy in Newport Beach. More money than God, big mansion, and retired at 50. After explaining that he had for many years been a successful treasure hunter (not shipwrecks). It took me two years of being friends before he broke out the photo album with an 8x10 glossy of him kneeling next to a pile of gold bars about 3 feet tall by 6 feet long. My jaw hit the floor and I was hooked. He spent the next few years taking me around SoCal Deserts and Mountains showing me monuments, markers, etc. Around the Southwest US, there are literally thousands of rock markers. The vast majority just show trails, protected campsites, water sources, etc. There are also a very small number that guide the way to mines and cached wealth. Chuck Kenworthy spent about $250,000 bribing Museum Docents and Historical Library Archivists for copies of any documents that appeared to be treasure maps or to show markers or monuments. Of all the stuff he got, he managed to boil it all down to about 18 pages of hard information. A buddy of mine who is a Hollywood Stuntman was very close to Chuck for the last few years of his life, was supposed to get those 18 pages. Chuck's Son (Tiger is Charles N. Kenworthy; Chuck was Charles A. Kenworthy; and Chuck's Dad was Charles F. Kenworthy; to keep them correct remember F.A.N.) came in and took them. The things in Chuck's Books are real. While arguments can be made about what they mean, he never faked anything. You should also remember that Chuck shared a lot of information, he didn't give out much info on the exact spot to dig.......on purpose. The first cache I found was due in part to Chuck's Information, in part to my Newport Beach friend's information, in part to some of my research, and some shooting from the hip. In 2012, I was seeing a bunch of people trashing Kenworthy. They never knew or met the man, so I posted the monument trail that led to about $20,000 in Colonial Spanish gold and silver coins. Some forums don't allow links to other forums, so if that isn't allowed here, mods please don't blast this whole post. Just kill the link. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/287281-monument-trail.html Because of that event, I can tell you that stone monuments and markers exist. They may have slightly different meanings in different situations, but to say they don't exist only shows a severe ignorance of the subject. I have seen the Poodle and the Indian Chief. The great majority of the monuments and markers in Kenworthy's Books are either in Anza-Borrego Desert in SoCal, or in the area of the Superstition Mountains (40 miles East of Phoenix). I have seen the question many times......WHY BUILD ROCK MONUMENTS? The area North of the Gila River in the 16th and 17th Centuries was far to the North of their normal routes. Because there was not year round water (and it takes a lot of water to process ore) or stores to buy supplies (candles, tallow, chisels, buckets, etc), the Spanish/Mexicans could not work their far North mines year round. They would caravan up from Sonora in late Summer/Early Fall. It was then starting to cool off and water started running again. They would set up everything near a good water source and send their prospectors out looking for anything of value (gold, silver, iron, mercury, etc). They would stay there working until late Spring/Early Summer (when it got hot and the water dried up). They would hide their mines and head back to Sonora. That is why an authentic Spanish/Mexican Mine of the era has an entrance that looks like a rat hole (tiny)(easy to hide). Three maps had to be filed in Santa Fe, Mexico City, Acapulco, or Seville were; 1. Distance Map (from your Hacienda to the edge of the mountain range where your mine was located). 2. Edge of mountains to the mouth of the canyon where your mine is located. 3. Map of the canyon where your mine is located with an "X" Marks the spot. These third maps are usually heavily coded. If you don't have the money to go back every year, things in the wilderness change greatly. Trails wash out. Rivers change course. Springs dry up. Fires and bugs can destroy trees that have signs carved in them. Large boulders not so much. Most monuments are just "improvements" on existing rocks and rock formations. Tired of typing. More to come. Mike
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