Bedrock Bob

Hey it's just my opinion Mac. Don't get wrapped around the axle about it. We are all discussing what we think about it and who we think bears responsibility. I think you should stop trying to stifle the conversation. We can discuss this very intriguing tragedy if we want to. And you are free to try and derail that conversation. But personally I don't think you can. I think the conversation will go on despite your objections.

Of course. He is certainly responsible for his personal failures that contributed to the accident. Just like everyone else involved. I don't think his role amounts to negligent homicide. Certainly not murder. But he did pull the trigger on a gun that he did not personally check. So he was responsible to some extent. It was a very unique situation. How much responsibility he bears will be up to the courts to decide. I think he should pay millions. But I don't think he should be criminally charged. That is just my opinion based on what has been reported. If the story about using the weapon for plinking is true there is an entirely different layer of culpability. In my opinion the only person who should be criminally charged are those who used the gun for unauthorized use and anyone who allowed them to do it. That is why the accident happened. It was a heck of a lot more irresponsible than some actor who is not familiar with weapons forgetting to open the cylinder before rehearsing, but not quite as irresponsible as picking up a weapon and announcing "cold gun" without personally checking and then handing it to someone who is going to pull the trigger. It was the armorers and AD's job to make sure actors don't forget, that weapons are secured and not used for unauthorized use, that they are unloaded at all times and that no live ammunition is ever brought on set. It is also their job to open the action when they pick up the gun and put it into play. They are experts hired to do just that because actors are not necessarily familiar with firearms. All of these "experts" failed to do their jobs. And an actor who was not familiar with weapons was paying them to keep everyone safe. They were willfully negligent. Baldwin was just willfully ignorant. Again, just my two cents.

I agree with that statement 100% Slim. And I think that point could be successfully argued in a civil suit. It is clear that if Baldwin had been familiar with firearms safety the accident may not have happened. I just don't see him facing criminal charges. And if he does I don't see a jury of convicting him. At least not from the information the public has today. Handling a gun on a movie set is a lot different environment than an individual carrying a weapon. And there are very different, very specific safety procedures for insuring a weapon is unloaded. Procedures that clearly werent being followed. Yes, the ritual opening of the weapon and showing everyone involved it was empty was not done. But that ritual is not for the actor to initiate. That is for the AD to initiate when he picks the weapon up and puts it into play. That is how it is supposed to be done on set. And yes, it wasn't done. Just as Baldwin should have checked the gun when he got it, so should the AD. And the armorer should have insured there was no loaded weapons on that cart. And whomever brought live ammo on set was directly responsible for the death. So there were many at fault at least as much or more than Baldwin. He was the big honcho on set and obviously allowed things to slide. Either by ignorance or apathy he didn't insist on discipline on his set. And for that he certainly could face a civil suit. The person or persons who loaded that gun and allowed it to be used on set might be criminally charged I guess. It depends on New Mexico law. It also depends on the Santa Fe District Attorney. I suggest you Google her and read her bio before you make any bets on what happens.

Im sure if they had blood samples from everyone that handled that gun they could probably find all sorts of suspicious chemicals. I bet the cops asked every witness that question. I bet they didn't take anyone's blood except the victims. If someone did take the gun out plinking and/or drinking they are in big trouble. That is just unprofessional and irresponsible. The Sheriff and the DA are supposed to say a few words about it tomorrow. Maybe there will be some new info. Who knows they may even announce some charges? This is really an interesting situation. You couldn't write a better movie script.

Murder requires intent Slim. Negligent homicide does not. Im not sure there is any intent here. At least not so far. And there seems to be mounting evidence for negligence. Who intended for someone to die? Do you think Alec Baldwin is a murderer?

If set weapons were used for plinking heads are going to roll. Everyone except Baldwin would be negligent in their duties. The armorer, the Asst. Director and anyone who was shooting that firearm. Complete lack of discipline and disregard for established procedure. If that is how the live rounds wound up in the gun there will be several people who share the blame for this death. It would clearly require gross negligence of several people. Unless Baldwin was plinking with them I don't see that he has done anything criminal or negligent. At least from what we have heard so far. The production may have civil liabilities that extend to Baldwin himself. If they did not have written processes and policy they are at fault. But if processes were not followed the individuals violating them bear the risk of being found negligent. It's going to be intersting how this plays out. My bet is that they had lax leadership from the young armorer. She let set weapons be used inappropriately. She may have simply left them unsecured or unattended. Either way she is at fault. Then the Asst Director handed a gun to the actor and proclaimed it was empty. It was his duty to check it before he handed it to the actor. He obviously did not do that. That is clear cut negligence. The people who took that gun plinking were WAY out of bounds. Not only did they (evidently) return a loaded weapon to the set, but they took a weapon from the set! It is ridiculous for anyone on the set to think that would be O.K. it was their inappropriate actions that set the whole thing in motion. I can't see that Balwin did anything except what he was expected to do. He took a weapon that he was told was ready and began the rehearsal. Yes he could have checked it himself. But that was not his job nor his expertise. He had hired people to do that for him. And those people told him it was safe to use. This drama will continue to unfold. It is a fascinating tragedy to be sure. So far I don't see any criminal intent. Just a bunch of undisciplined movie set workers making a dollar a minute.

That's just it right there. Someone loaded the weapon with live ammo instead of blanks. And then the director called out "cold gun on set". There wasn't even supposed to be blanks in the gun. He announced it was a "cold gun" but he didn't even check it. That was his job. There were several procedural errors that had to come together for this to happen.

Some of the crystals out there are as big as the end of your thumb. We used to find one like that every day and a hand full of the little ones. My uncle used to sell everything we found. Im not sure what they were worth. It was a very long time ago. The nice clear ones pea sized and bigger are certainly worth something. Where you might sell them I don't know. There used to be a jewelry manufacturer in Mesilla Park that bought stones and metal scrap. Im not sure if they are still in business. I know there are several in Albuquerque. That is where I would go to get info on quality and value. Check out Mamas Minerals. Someone there will definitely have good info for you.

I could be mistaken about who the armorer was on this shoot. Either the info I got was wrong or the info the media got was wrong. I leave it up to you to decide who is right about the armorer. Me or the lying fake news media. Either way my story is as plausible as "a sick anti-gunner" or Alec Baldwin himself. It's all just politically motivated fantasy filling in space where knowledge is lacking. I can spin a better story than Clay or Slim. And since we are all just talking out of our fanny one story is just as valid as the next. We are all as full of $h!t as we can be but I'm the only one who will admit it. My story is better written and makes a lot more sense. But you are free to pick your favorite and swear it is the "truth" if that suits you.

No telling. A hardness test is needed for sure.

Kinda like Slim postulating it was a sick anti-gun activist huh? Saying "leave politics out of it" is to deny the fact that the motive could very well be Alec Baldwin's political leanings. It's just fine for Clay to suggest Alec Baldwin had motive because of his political leanings but not for me to suggest the inverse may be true? That my friend is not politics. It is hogwash. And you have a bucketfull in your hand.

By "shouldn't be happening" you mean I should not be allowed to offer an opinion on a politically slanted post if it makes a conservative mad? Come on Mac. We all know why Slim posted about this and why he is trying to fault Alec Baldwin. We also know why my response is so objectionable.

Slim is going to throw a tantrum no matter what I post Dan. It's what he does. I haven't posted anything that could rub him the wrong way. He is the one that chooses to throw a fit and call the cops every time he is not satisfied with my response. If he is going to post his politically motivated crap here then he should have to live with the conflicting opinions. And if he can't live with those opinions without having an emotional crisis then it is just not my fault. We all seem to be able to tolerate each other's posts. It is only Slim that can't seem to handle mine. Im not asking anyone to agree with me here. Im just illustrating how intolerant this guy is. It's ridiculous that he be allowed to post this slanted crap and then throw a fit when my opinion does not make him happy.

The same way that the words "anti gun" and "Baldwin was careless" got in there Slim. If you can postulate that it was violent anti-gunners then others can postulate as well. I see no reason to believe that it was "anti gunners" but there is ample reason to believe it was because of Baldwin's caricature of T$#&p. This post was an attempt to fault Alec Baldwin because of his political satire. It stands to reason that the shooting could have something to do with that as well. I think someone loaded that gun on purpose. It would have been impossible to get a live round in there by accident. It was either gross negligence or intentional. If you ask yourself why someone would put a loaded gun in Alec Baldwin's hand and yell "Cold gun on set!" You come up with a very short list of motives. You just can't rule out his roles on SNL in this politically polarized environment. His role is the reason you posted about the shooting! If you think the FBI is interested in anything I wrote then call them Slim. Im not sure what they would gain from speaking to me but I would be happy to discuss anything I know about it. Which is nothing except rumors from within the film industry. You are being overly dramatic again Slim. The topic has shifted to addressing me again and trying to fault me for something. It's super childish. Why can't you simply discuss the topic without getting emotional? This will be the fourth time you have suggested calling the law over a post I made. Does the term "Karen" apply yet? Calm down. Can't we just discuss the shooting like adults without calling the freaking FBI? It's ridiculous man.