Jump to content
Nugget Shooter Forums

El Dorado

Premium Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by El Dorado

  1. Hey Steve,

    Just curious, but what if you ever want to remove the camoclad?



    It does come off, I don't know how hard because I am not going to take it off. And yes it comes in many patterns. Just out hunting with matt the other day and we were maybe 250 yards away from our trucks and I will say while out in the open my truck was not that noticeable compared to matt's. It is really a great product. Not to mention it is way tougher than manzanita or just about anything you can throw at it.

    Only problem with it is every place you go you have to be prepared to answer many questions........

  2. Grubstake is right. I have the same set up -- Bluetooth headphones, and the Pocket Rocket. I mount the battery and the Bluetooth right on the wrist cuff. Works great and no wires to get in the way.

    You are eliminating wires for sure, but at the cost of adding more weight to the set up......... I want it light enough so these old elbows and arm do not even need the bungee cord! I figure the battery at one end and the coil at the other would be about perfect.......

  3. After getting an iPhone for Christmas, I know powerful computers can be made very small. I would like to see the control box made as small as my phone with a bluetooth connection be available for the headphones. All controls would be on a touchscreen just like the iPhone....... this would end up having no wires to connect around your back, virtually no moving parts.switches etc....... and be extremely light to say the least! So the shaft would then consist of the shaft, coil and battery/control box with a wire to the coil. Zero connections to the body!

  4. Don loved his Pique so much that we were constanly stopping to gather them.. here he is at it. One thing he did not tell about his favorite fruit... if you bite to hard into it, it is full of thorns!


    Thought I would throw in a few pics of a river near Don's Town at Don's request. We went out to look at it one day to look at all the unworked bedrock cracks. The river was at it's lowest so we could see plenty.



  5. The prospectors just want to sell the gold, there are no buyers (except Garimpo) for nuggets and specimens. So, they take their gold into the town's gold buyer and he smashes them to smithereens with a hammer on a steel plate. He does not want to buy rock, only gold and he does not care if it is a special specie. That piece would easily been worth twice what was paid for it had it been HF treated............ I actually witnessed the buyer doing this to another nugget and it was as if he was smashing my own flesh..........

  6. Maybe someone can tell me, if there is a BLM iland surounded by private land, and it has an access road, going accross the private land, that has been open to the public for 20 years or more, can they legally denie you access to the now claimed blm land? Since it has been open to the public for so long? I heard there was a real estate law that said they have to give you access. But I might be wrong. Grubstake

    I own such a piece of Land myself on the South Fork of the American River. The road is a private road for access to the private property only. Beyond the private property is BLM land. that is almost land locked by private property. I own 40 acres of patented property and have claimed an additional 40 acres adjacent to my it (3/4 mile of river total). A few years back this was a huge discussion on this forum with mostly myself and Slim. Anyway to make a long story short: After years of leaving the road open to the public to access the river I closed it off with a gate and a no trespass sign. This was after the second refrigerator and other large crap was dumped along my road.. Numerous discussions with the County and BLM indicated it well within my rights to close this off. Even now if the BLM wants access to the BLM land, they must get permission from me on an entry by entry case.

    The reason for my action was not to deny access to all, but rather to protect my private property. There is one more road that can give access to the BLM land, but it is pretty much grown over and unusable.

    As a miner myself, if someone were to stake a claim beyond mine and ask for access, I would grant it. However it would be done on a contract basis with conditions that would protect me and my land.

  7. Fileing an ammended location notice or any other ammendmnet is just modifying the original. Let's say you described one of the corners wrong and need to correct it, or you transposed your address wrong... you can corrrect these issued on the original location.

    Anyway here it is from the book: once again it is for CA but the basics hold true for all claims. By the way, the book for California was available on CD that is why it is so easy for me to quote

    Amended Locations and Relocations

    An amendment to a location notice for a mining claim or site can be made (and filed) at

    any time with the appropriate county recorder and the BLM California State Office. It can

    be made on the same type of form as was used for the original location. An amendment is

    made where an amendable error has occurred or a clarification is needed. An amended

    location relates back to the original date that the mining claim or site was located. An

    amended location notice cannot be used to change the location date of a claim, increase

    the acreage, or add locators. An amendment is not necessary when title to the claim

    changes. When title changes, follow the procedures for a transfer of interest (43 CFR

    3833.21; see Laws/Regs LR-18, page 413).

    The fee required for filing an amended location notice with the BLM is $10 for each mining

    claim or site. The notice should be filed within 90 days of the date of the amendment.

    However, there is no penalty if the 90-day requirement is not met (Leland H. Bray, 37 IBLA

    120 (1978)). An amended location notice must first be filed with the county recorder,

    and then the county recorded copy must be filed with BLM (43 CFR 3833.22; see

    Laws/Regs LR-18, page 413).

    For more detailed information, see R. Gail Tibbetts, et. al., 43 IBLA 210 (1979); American

    Resources Ltd., 44 IBLA 220 (1979); Samuel P. Bar Sr., 65 IBLA 167 (1982); R. Gail

    Tibbetts v. BLM, 62 IBLA 124 (1982); and Cal. Pub. Res. Code, Chap. 4, Div. 2,

    Sec. 2310.


  8. Thanks Randy! This has turned out to be a really informative thread!!!!

    You mentioned in your post that a placer claim covers a "square plot of land in 20 acre increments". I have seen some placer claims "laid out" to look like shapes other than a rectangle or a square. For example, when looking at some of the placer claims that are for sale by various persons on the web (not just the "paper filers" but some of the more reputable claim brokers, who are representating "good" claims in known gold producing areas), some of the placer claims seem to have been laid out, years ago, to follow the river or creek in shapes such as parallellagrams or even multi sided shapes which appear to be a conglomerate of triangles, rectangles, etc., to best follow the river or stream. Just wondering if the "geometrical shape" of a claim is important to the claim being legal and valid? or if the shape really makes no difference, only the discovery of a locatable valuable mineral resource?????

    I guess a second question to go along with the one above regarding shapes is: If a "weird" shape is allowed, such as something other than a square or rectangle, how can this shape be legally described during "location" of the claim other than through an actual survey of the plot of land you are claiming? For instance, many placer claims will have a description such as the "the NW 1/2 of the SW 1/4 of section 12 of the ............"; but, if you are dealing with a weird or unusual shape, there really would not be a way to accurately describe the boundaries of this claim without a survey. Would a location and claim still be valid in that case, without a survey?

    This has become an excellent thread with a lot of valuable information being conveyed! I sincerely appreciate all who have contributed.

    Actually the minimum size a claim can be is 10 acres not 20. Something else many do not know is that each and every ten acres located within a placer claim must meet the prudent man rule and have recoverable minerals. Many claims are just laid out in blocks that do not meet this rule. I have seen many of the internet sellers put an 80 acre claim on the market that may only have a small corner of lets say a creek and the rest might be void of gold or recoverable mineral........

    Mineral in Character

    and the 10-Acre Rule for Placer Mining Claims

    Mineral in Character and Geologic Interference

    One discovery of a valuable mineral deposit per placer claim is sufficient, whether the

    claim is 20 acres for an individual placer claim, or other amounts up to a maximum of

    160 acres for an association of eight persons (20 acres per person). However,

    regulations regarding placer claims require that, after discovery of a valuable deposit has

    been made, each 10-acre plot shall be examined for its mineral-in-character nature (43

    CFR 3832.21, LR-17, page 410). Only those 10-acre plots that are mineral in character

    are valid or can be clear-listed for patent, U.S. v. Meyers, 17 IBLA 313 (1974), U.S. v.

    Lara, 67 IBLA 48, 50 (1982), and McCall v. Andrus, 682 F.2d 1185 (9th Cir. 1980), cert.

    denied 450 US 996 (1981).

    The elements of mineral in character on a placer mining claim are defined as follows:

    It is not essential that there be an actual discovery of mineral on the land. It is

    sufficient to show only that known conditions are such as reasonably to engender

    the belief that the land contains mineral of such quality and in such quantity as to

    render its extractions profitable and justify expenditures to that end. Such belief

    may be predicated upon geological conditions, discoveries of minerals in

    adjacent land, and other observable external conditions upon which prudent and

    experienced men are shown to be accustomed to act; Southern Pacific Co., 71

    ID 233 (1964).

    I will also post the requirements for locating a placer claim. There is an answer for claims that are irregular in shape: I do have one 60 acre claim that is one mile long and 60' wide. It follows a very small creek.

    I have also helped lay out a 80 acre claim that has something like 22 corners so that it will contain as much creek as possible in those 80 acres...

    Placer Mining Claims and Notices

    Where there is a U.S. land survey, only one discovery, one location monument and one

    location notice is necessary for a placer mining claim whether it is of 20 acres, or an

    association placer mining claim containing up to 160 acres (the maximum allowed by law

    and requiring a minimum of eight claimants). An association placer mining claim requires

    one party of interest for each 20 acres until the maximum of 160 acres is reached. For

    example, an 80-acre association placer mining claim requires four claimants. Corporations

    cannot locate association placer mining claims, but can locate individual 20-acre claims.

    Separate location notices, plus fees, are required for each 20-acre claim.


    land than is proper on association placer mining claims. In Cook v. Klonos, 164 F 529,

    538 (9th Cir.,1908), it was stated:

    The question here is, not whether an individual can purchase mining claims after

    they have been located and hold them in his own name, but whether an individual

    can, by the use of the names of his friends, relatives, or employees as dummies,

    locate for his own benefit a greater area of mining ground than that allowed by law.

    The mineral land laws of the United States are extremely liberal in the

    requirements under which possessory rights may be acquired. The few restrictions

    imposed are only intended to prevent the primary location and accumulation of

    large tracts of land by a few persons, and to encourage the exploration of the

    mineral resources of the public land by actual bona fide locators. The scheme of

    using the names of dummy locators in making the location of a mining claim for the

    purpose of securing a concealed interest in such claim appears to be contrary to

    the purpose of the statute; but when this scheme is used to secure an interest in a

    claim for a single individual, not only concealed but in excess of the limit of 20

    acres, it is plainly in violation of the letter of the law, and when, as in this case, all

    the locators had knowledge of the concealed interest and were parties to the

    transaction, it renders the location void.

    All placer mining claims must conform as nearly as possible with the U.S. System of

    Public Land Surveys and the rectangular subdivisions of these surveys, whether the

    locations are on surveyed or unsurveyed lands (43 CFR 3832.12 and 3832.21-.22; see

    Laws/Regs LR-9, page 377, for details). Claims described by private surveys will not be

    accepted if they do not match the approved U.S. land survey for that township/section.

    Diagrams of some of these placer mining claims are shown in Figures F-2 and F-4 on

    pages 195 and 197.

    Where a U.S. land survey has been extended over the subject land, a placer claim is

    taken by legal subdivisions through aliquot part description (i.e., E1⁄2NW1⁄4SW1⁄4, Sec. 3,

    T.13 N., R.10 E., MD Mer.). Corner monuments are not required, but it is recommended

    that a claimant place posted end monuments to avoid any confusion and possible

    overfiling by other persons (Cal. Pub. Res. Code, Chap. 4, Div. 2, Sec. 2303 for details).

    Where there is no U.S. land survey in the area, a placer claim must be located in the same

    manner as a lode claim. In addition to a discovery monument, all corners must be

    monumented and posted, and boundaries must be marked so they can be readily traced.

    It is critical to note that any single placer association group, regardless of the style of

    location, must be contiguous. That is, any two or more tracts claim cannot simply corner,

    because they would not be contiguous.

    It is critical to note that any single placer association group regardless of the style of

    location must be contiguous. That is, any two or more tracts cannot simply corner because

    they would not be contiguous (see Figure F-6, page 199).

    The following important points summarize information required for Placer Location Notices

    (see Forms/Notices FM-2, page 241).


    1. Mining claim name, date of location, geographic location, posting data,

    description of discovery monument, and the number of acres claimed are

    completed for Items 1 through 4 and 7 through 9. Make sure that your claim is

    properly plotted on the topographic map (Item 7) and that this location matches

    the written description at Item 4. Remember that each claimant may claim only

    a maximum of 20 acres. Also remember that the date of location is the

    date of the erection and posting of the discovery monument, and not the

    filing date of the notice.

    2. Items 5 and 6 are filled out only if the claim is in an area where there is no U.S.

    Public Land Survey.

    3. Read the section on Placer Mining Claims in Powersite Withdrawals to see if

    you need to fill out Item 10. If you do not, mark NA for "not applicable" in the

    space provided.

    4. Print or type information at Item 11 and sign and date under Item 12.

    Note: Use a continuation sheet if there are more claimants than the four

    spaces provided at Items 11 and 12.

    5. Carefully read the material that follows Item 12 regarding filing deadlines. The

    notice must be filed with the BLM, together with all fees, within 90 days of the

    location date used in Item 1.

    Elongated and Gulch Placer Mining Claims

    As mentioned above, all placer mining claims must conform as nearly as possible with the

    legal subdivisions of the U.S. Public Land Survey. This means that claims must be

    configured in squares and rectangles. Conformity to the rectangular survey system is

    required. Long narrow strips or irregular shapes are not allowed.

    However, some placer mining claims can be located that do not comply strictly with the

    legal subdivisions. Requirements for these claims are set out at 43 CFR 3832.12©(3) --

    (see Laws/Regs LR-17, page 410).

    Unusually long placer mining claims, called gulch placers, are rarely located and only in

    unique environments. The length requirements mentioned above can be waived where

    "mineral deposits are confined within a narrow strip of land in the bed and on the banks of

    a small stream in a canyon flanked by abrupt walls or rocky slopes on each side,

    containing no mineral, agricultural or timber values" (William F. Carr, 53 ID 431 (1931)).

    Gulch placer mining claims are located by the metes and bounds system as are lode

    mining claims. Side and end lines should be straight and parallel, and the discovery

    monument keyed to some natural object (see Items 5 and 6, Forms/Notices FM-2,

    page 241).

    In the Interior Decision regarding Carr (cited above), a placer mining claim a little over a

    mile in length was allowed because it met the stringent requirements for a gulch placer

    mining claim. The BLM strongly emphasizes, however, that true gulch placer deposits are

    very rare, and a claimant should consult a mining lawyer before locating one. In most


    cases, a valuable placer deposit can be located by other types of placer mining claims.

    Claimants should remember the caution given in Snow Flake Fraction Placer:

    Claimants should bear in mind that it is the policy of the government to have all

    entries whether of agricultural or mineral lands as compact and regular in form as

    reasonably practicable, and that it will not permit or sanction entries or locations

    which cut the public domain into long narrow strips or grossly irregular or

    fantastically shaped tracts (Snow Flake Fraction Placer, 37 LD 250).

    Remember, whether or not a placer location conforms reasonably with the legal

    subdivisions of the public survey is a question of fact to be determined in each case. Also,

    remember that lands within a placer mining claim (individuals or association) must be

    contiguous (Melvin Helit, 47 IBLA 45 (1998)).

    Two other considerations for caution:

    (1) Where an association of eight individual claimants locates a placer mining

    claim in excess of 160 acres and declines to amend the location, the inclusion of

    excess acreage may be construed as intentional and the claim may be declared

    null and void ab initio (Melvin Helit, 57 IBLA 111 (2002)).

    (2) Association placer mining claims are properly declared null and void ab initio

    where topographic maps accompanying the notices of location for the claims

    depict them as covering vastly more than 20 acres per person and where the gross

    oversizing of the claims is confirmed by post-location efforts to sell portions of one

    of the claims in excess of the maximum acreage (Melvin Helit, 160 IBLA 15


  9. I've been around rattlers for most of my life, Only reason I have not been bit is luck. Like Bob it would have been my hand if luck were not with me. I do know in Brazil, Garimpo got hit from behind, good thing he was wearing his snakeguards because he probably would not be posting if he was not. Never wore them in the US, but I certainly did in Brazil. Fortunately not many die from rattlesnake bites, but some of the snakes in Brazil are the the ten step or a little longer kind........Plus if you make it to a hospital in time, you have to have brought the snake to tell which anti-venom to use. I will wear them on the next trip down there, but doubt if I will ever wear them here.

    I used to patrol a very large private land holding, it was chock full of Western Diamondbacks. After a few weeks of being around them all the time, I could easily smell them before I found them. Once you learn the smell it really stands out.........and the smell warning comes way before a rattle warning.

    For my dogs, I have them get immunization shots..............

  10. Same to you and your family Bob....since Christmas is about giving here´s how I spend my Christmas....

    since so many of the farm kids here in Brazil live in absolute poverty....the owner of the ranch where I´ve hunted

    for the last 12 years gives a Christmas party for the neighboring ranch kids.....lots of food....games....and presents...

    I show up at his ranch early on the morning of the 24th and me and Tony the owner start going to the ranches to

    get the kids in our pickups since nearly all of the parents don´t have a car of any kind...my wife and the other grand=

    mother of my grand-son organizes the games for the 50 or so kids and help pass out the food....Tony usually milks

    about 16 cows every morning for his income but two years ago some kind of disease wiped out the herd...also his

    neighbors cows.....so I´ve been helping with the expenses for the presents and food...just so happened this year

    that my two gringo amigos from the states also made a great cash contribution....a big thanks to Ken \snowflake....and

    Steve/ El Dorado.....I´ll be leaving here on the 23rd for the 600 mile drive so I´ll be there for the party.....when you

    see the faces of those little kids with the only present they´ll receive it really gets to a fellow....


    Here is Tony and Don where the kids Christmas party will happen


  11. I brought a pair of these to Brazil. They were by far the most comfortable high boots I have worn to date. They did start to de-laminate right at the lower part of the back but a bit of glue and they have been good to go since........... I was lucky, they fit me perfect right out of the box.

    Where are they available for that price, I will get a second pair

  12. The knees they installed on me are made out of zirconium. Special sports knees that athletes get. Not that I am one, but my docs though since they knew I would be rough on them, that is what I should have. They say it polishes much better than stainless or titanium therefor will not wear the nylon nearly as fast. The told me that even with moderate to hard use, I should get 15 years out of these. Good enough for me. Best of luck. Morphine will be your good friend for a week or so

  13. that is right... and a mining attorney can certainly stop someone in their tracks if they try to claim a lode under your placer without your specific permission. Remember the BLM is only a regulatory agency, not the enforcement arm of the law in these situations. That is why I quoted the regulations right out of the book. A judge will interpret from those regulations.

    Someone can still file the paperwork and the BLM will accept that paperwork right or wrong, but it is up to you to protect your mineral rights. If it is a large mining company that wants that lode, sell it to them for a fixed price plus royalties......

    Another thing to keep in mind, the BLM has a legal advocate. Not many know about that, and you can request an opinion from that person, but it will have no legal standing in a court.

  • Create New...