Jump to content
Nugget Shooter Forums


For the discussion of all forms of Gold Prospecting and Gold recovery. Panning, Drywashing, Dredgeing, Sluicing, Hardrock Mining and........

Gold Prospecting Forum Guidelines

There are just a few rules here and yup I do enforce them and keep an eye on things as best I can. Here are a few guidelines I'd like you to follow if you will be participating here. This forum is not moderated as heavily as the other sections so please do not enter or open a topic if you think you will be offended. If you are at least respond like an adult or we will remove your post as soon as brought to our attention.

Vulgar and abusive language is not welcome here! Heck a cuss word to get a point across is not so bad, but I think you know what I mean.

I will not host public arguments and pissing matches between individuals here so please just don't do it. When it happens the post most times will simply vanish into cyber space.

Political or Religious posts belong in "Off Topic" but surly you can find other forums that host those discussions if it is your thing, I don't think anyone cares if you are Conservative or Liberal when we are out hunting gold nuggets.

You may not use this forum to advertise any other dealer, store, or product without written permission by owner at any time. Used items are allowed in the classified section.

This forum is not responsible for anything said by it's members at any time. This is a public forum and will remain so and although I can and will occasionally zap "bad content" I don't do it often and so far have never permanently banned a person. Also opinions expressed here do not always represent the opinion of the forum's owner!

Guests are welcome to browse the forum and use the information provided by registered members, but you can not post yourself until you are a registered member.

That is pretty much it my fellow Nugget Shooters so enjoy the forum, keep it clean and play nice.

1,587 topics in this forum

  1. KLM Files

    • 4 replies
  2. GPAA Claims Listed

    • 0 replies
    • 0 replies
  3. Fluid Bed Gold?

    • 15 replies
    • 6 replies
  4. colors of gold

    • 8 replies
  5. gold fever / lynx creek

    • 11 replies
    • 10 replies
  6. John Boyles

    • 9 replies
  7. Big one in AU

    • 2 replies
    • 4 replies
    • 5 replies
    • 3 replies
  8. Gold Cube

    • 15 replies
  9. Camp out

    • 19 replies
    • 0 replies
  10. oxidized gold?

    • 3 replies
    • 13 replies
    • 2 replies
  11. Eclipse Trip

    • 0 replies
  12. GPAA

    • 13 replies
  13. Italian Gold Rush

    • 1 reply
    • 24 replies
  14. Alaska trip

    • 1 reply
    • 6 replies
  • Posts

    • Clay, you seriously crack me up man! I didn't use your name because I didn't want you to think I was trying to pick a fight with you. I just wanted to address the issue of the Spanish presence near the Bradshaws who were engaging in prospecting and mining activities North of the Gila. That's a well established fact in the historical record which you denied previously but now you reluctantly admit by saying, "Ore"? Well, sure if you are just dying to find something to report back so you can get more men and supplies" Getting you to admit an objective fact is like pulling teeth with you Clay!  I would have been happy to give you credit, but actually I was trying to spare you the embarrassment of being wrong! (As you were in your previous attack on me) So, you argue that everyone was lying? I get it. Nobody went there, nobody found anything, it was all lies. LIES, LIES, LIES! The explorers lied, the witnesses who were deposed lied. The assay reports were obviously fabricated and fraudulent. (They are in the records) ALL LIES?  Here's a quote from the Office of the New Mexico State Historian: "One party in Oñate’s group even traveled as far as the San Francisco Mountains in Arizona, where they found silver ore and staked a claim" LIES CLAY? That is North of the Gila isn't it Clay? Just a wee bit? No silver ever there? Is that what your saying or just not mined down to the 1600' level?  (more irrelevant diversionary clap - trap) OK, now, let's examine your so called education opportunity, (without the selective cherry picked accusations against Onate)  First let me emphasize that I am not defending Onate's brutality, but that has nothing to do with Spanish expeditions in the vicinity of the Bradshaw Mts!  Clay, much to my disappointment, I now see that It's obvious you are just trying to create a diversion to obviscate the well documented fact that Onate did make and order expeditions near the Bradshaw Mts. (hoping to cover up the fact that you had not done the proper research before hand), that's OK, except now, having been forced to do the research, you have to carefully cherry pick and present only what falsely serves your one sided argument which not only distorts the facts but attempts to change the subject (like you did last time) Contrary to your assertion, I completed the research months ago. I know what has been reported as being factual (and there are several different interpretations and versions as you no doubt realize) You said:  "If you had actually continued your research you would know that Onate (the last conquistador) was prosecuted and convicted of lying in these records and for personally lying to the King about these discoveries. It is a famous and very well documented trial. He was convicted of 13 charges including murdering his second in command and two of his officers along with a few hundred Acoma natives. He was a very stabby guy and couldn't stand even a little criticism even when it came from his best friend and confidant - who he stabbed to death publicly. It was shown that Espejo had concocted his story also but his legacy was mostly excused because Onate based his defense on Espejo having lied. That really didn't matter to the court because Espejo didn't lie to the KING as Onate had and that was the worst crime under Spanish law - a much worse crime than getting all murder stab stab with his officers and friends" My Response:  Really Clay? Please. Spare me the drama and false pretenses. You and I know the truth because we have researched the historical records (of which there are many), but Clay, if it had been a punitive trial and as serious as you would have us believe, surely he would have been punished severely or possibly even been executed, right?  Was he executed Clay? Was he imprisoned? Do you want to be honest and disclose what happened to Onate Clay? Didn't he just resign his post as Governor in New Mexico, go home to Mexico because he could no longer pay his army, or provide for them because he had exhausted his entire fortune supporting them (the Crown didn't pay them) and the Crown didn't support the expedition, including Onate (That's the main reason why the deserters were taking their families and going home) They had no food or means of support except by force of arms against the native tribes which was constantly resulting in violence. They wanted the old system of encomienda - free land and natives as slaves to make them rich. That system was outlawed and didn't Onate enforce that Law? Many of his group hated Onate because of that. As you stated, Onate was "The Last Conquistador" and his father was a rich silver magnate and mine owner. He was weaned on stories of Pizarro, who looted the Inca Empire, and Cortes, who annihilated the Aztec Empire (Onate was married to  Isabel de Tolosa Cortes Montezuma), a descendant of conquistador Hernán Cortes and the Aztec emperor Montezuma), so he had it in his blood to search for riches; gold and silver. And didn't Onate get rich again working in his father's silver mines in Mexico before he was called back to Spain to face an instigated show trial, and after his trial and conviction (on charges brought by his political enemies, including the "Religious"), didn't he receive a pardon, and was then appointed to a high post as "head of all mining" in Spain?  HE RECEIVED A SLAP ON THE WRIST AND THEN A PROMOTION CLAY!! He had exhausted his fortune chasing around searching for cities of gold, where none existed like Coronado did before him, so naturally he had gone West where Espejo had reported a silver discovery. And according to supported historical records, it appears that he located and mined the same mineral deposits referred to by his predecessor.  The historical records state and confirm that the Spanish mined surface ore not far from the Bradshaws. Again, the point is, they were there. And some of the explorers could have been in the Bradshaws as well. They were known to be searching for mineral wealth without permission of the King, going where they were forbidden by law to go,and  in some instances under a pretext. History shows that it was probably much more widely done than has ever been reported because records were purposely not kept by some during the clandestine explorations into parts of  the Northern Kingdom. Did they sometimes lie to cover up their activities? Yes! And at times, they couldn't bring back the ore they discovered to show because they weren't supposed to have been there to begin with. But some were bold enough (according to validated records) to report their finds and ask permission to further their explorations. These requests were usually not granted by the King, partially because the King knew he was losing control of these expeditions and suspected that the Royal "5th", 20% tax, wasn't being paid to the Crown. And new discoveries of rich silver in Mexico were getting the attention and support of the Spanish government because they were easier to oversee and control. Finally Clay, you turned a simple book report assignment into a fiction novel, and in doing so revealed your bias toward the truth,  which is a further disappointment since you once said you were fond of facts, remember? Oh, no doubt you can inundate us with trail testimony, more filler and white noise on the subject, but it doesn't change the basic conclusion that you concealed material facts to slant your argument. You said: "I'm fond of facts. Facts and truth are inseparable friends. Speculation and imagination are very useful human traits and pursued with integrity they can lead to new facts to support the truth. Speculate as you wish but when speculations are contradicted by the facts that speculation is better characterized as fantasy. Fantasy does have it's place in human experience but I've never found a useful outcome when fantasy is mixed with mining. Perhaps your experience is different than mine?" Yes, thankfully it is. Unfortunately Clay, it seems that the only facts that you are fond off are your own "facts", that can be manipulated and shaped to suit your argument. it should be obvious that integrity in research and reporting requires a truthful disclosure of the whole story not just those "facts" convenient to your slanted argument. You shouldn't have to cherry pick and distort the "facts", which serves to misrepresent the record. Integrity seems to be lacking in your reporting Clay, so if that's the kind of education opportunity you are offering, I respectfully decline the "opportunity"      
    • Wife and I took the Saturday morning tour at the 16 to 1 mine again. This tour included the famous "Ball Room". 2 miles round trip and it was stunning. Loading video to Youtube today.
    • I would think if found, the price would be more if associated with the treasure. I fell into this hook line and sinker. Best time of my life heading out on a treasure hunt. Had a blast, met new people and places.  Also found what I believe to be a place that matched all the clues but no gold.
    • I wouldn't be surprised if someone found it and is keeping quiet about it.  I know Fenn offered to buy something of sentimental value back, but I think there's a good possibility someone found this treasure and is selling it a piece at a time, keeping quiet, to avoid being "lottery famous," and perhaps even to avoid paying taxes.  If not Fenn's treasure being found in that way, I would think many others would be cashed in on the down low.  I just don't think Fenn was in a position to place the treasure to terribly far off the beaten path and would have been found. Personally, I have decided that the treasure is in Idaho.  I may even use it as an excuse to get up to Idaho someday.  Probably won't do a lot of treasure hunting, maybe fishing though.
  • Today's Birthdays

    No users celebrating today
  • Create New...