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Found a interesting stone

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I should probably post this in the rock section to thwart off the onslaught of no's coming but maybe this has a snowballs chance and also I'd like my favorite peers opinions first because it's kinda cool and passed the weak fridge magnet test no problem and has tons of metal flecks very similar to the appearance in meteorites, So if this rock had any chance to be a meteorite one would have to assume because it's so smooth and polished on the exterior it's been through alot of terrestrial sand polishing action, I live on cape cod and there it tons of sand around and this was found on the Sandy side of a hill in a conservation area I was walking. So here goes!! It really a odd ball.

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Posted (edited)

A very interesting find and some great photos!

I have no idea what that is. It looks like it has been mechanically tumbled. It also looks like it has a bit of rainbow patina in the matrix. Is that just the photo or does the matrix seem semi metallic or sub metallic? It looks rather porous on the surface... would you agree?

My wild guess is a thermite slug that tumbled around in a piece of machinery or a boat. Lots of strange blobs of thermite around boats and heavy construction. It has a dark, brassy matrix and iron flecks. It often has other colored inclusions of flux, similar to that red dot. 

A thermite slug would not have the specific gravity to be a meteorite. If I were investigating this rock I would consider specific gravity very important based on what I see in the photos. Just my two cents and I am not sure my opinion is worth that much. 

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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I appreciate you enthusiasm and positivity Bob!! The rainbow patina seems to be a artifact of the image, looking in direct sunlight I can't see it like that image. It's not porous minus a few indentions, thermite is a interesting possibility, not being familiar with thermite and no luck in Google Search to similar thermite object. I believe you are correct the next course of action should be a test of specific gravity, lucky the size is conducive for a simply test!!!

Thank you!!

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Take a torch to it Rocky. If it's thermite you will know rather quickly.

p.s. Have someone with you to help lead you back to your house. If it is thermite you will be blind and someone will have to put out the fire. :ROFL:

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, clay said:

Take a torch to it Rocky. If it's thermite you will know rather quickly.

p.s. Have someone with you to help lead you back to your house. If it is thermite you will be blind and someone will have to put out the fire. :ROFL:

It would be the remnants of a thermite weld Clay. I am obviously not suggesting that it is thermite powder.

Thermite is a very common weld and the remnants of these welds are in no way flammable. They are in many cases however, dead ringers for a meteorite wrong.

I cant post the link but just google thermite welding or Cadweld. It will give you a clear idea of what I am talking about.

 

 

 

Edited by Bedrock Bob

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Posted (edited)

Boy you have become a real party pooper Bob. I've welded with Thermite so this is not news for me but the new guy didn't know that. If you can't mess with the new guys why even post?

I've been meaning to ask. What "tools" does a New Mexico bush doctor use? :D

p.s. You don't have to answer that last one, rhetorical question. I've operated "in the bush" for many years in New Mexico. :4chsmu1:

Good to have you back.

Edited by clay
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Sorry Clay. I didn't realize you were having a party nor was I aware I pooped on it. Just keepin' it real in a world where there is way too much BS.

The only thing I am sure of is that this rock wont cause burns or blindness. I guess my reply was a bit instinctive. Sorry if I spoiled your fun. 

Do you have any speculation on how metal flakes got into the matrix like that? What forces shaped that stone and resulted in the surface finish? Any solutions or insights into what this stone may be? 

Good to be back Clay!

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The fact that portions of it were more resistant to weathering in what appears to be layers may indicate a sedimentary deposit that has been subject to metamorphism in the past.

Being that it's magnetic the odds are good that iron is present in the rock.

It looks like tumbled basalt with native iron. Very few localities on Earth have native iron of terrestrial origin. These native occurrences are along natural smelting zones, where magma or lava has come in direct contact with carbonaceous sedimentary rocks. In such smelting zones, reducing conditions are created, and metallic iron can crystallize.

Of course it has a meteoric origin like every other rock on the planet but I doubt this one is recent enough to be considered a "meteorite" by whatever the age standards for meteorites are this year.

The red spot appears to be paint?

It also appears similar to the Asian black "jade" with "silver" but I'm assuming this was found in a natural setting. 

With no streak, hardness or fracture testing it's anybody's guess. Maybe Venusian jellybeans?

Party on! :thumbsupanim

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Clay,

I respectfully disagree and I would like to explain why.

I think we can safely rule out sedimentary metamorphic because of the metal flecks. Nor do I see it as telluric iron in basalt simply because of the astronomical odds of it being telluric iron. (That is the very same reasoning that makes it safe to say it is not a meteorite!) That narrows the probability way down from "anyone's guess" and completely eliminates Venusian Jellybeans.There is but one possibility left and it is by far the most likely... nearly 100%!

The overwhelming odds are that this object is an artifact of some kind. Most likely a product of industry in the Cape Cod area. By every indication (composition, shape and finish) it is man made. Running with those assumptions and knowing a bit about industry I would say it is some sort of metallic slag. Being familiar with thermite welds I recognize this material as very similar. Thus my deduction. I would bet I am damned close.

I am aware that sedimentary metamorphic rocks weather unevenly as well as the only telluric iron on the planet being in Greenland. I did not consider either to be a determining factor in my identification. I did not see these facts as relevant to the identification at all.

That is just my opinion and the logic behind why I think that. I am not trying to argue with you just pointing out our completely different approaches to problem solving and identification. How two guys using the same set of facts and familiar with the same processes can come to two radically different conclusions. And after all the process of identification is what we are posting about here, right?

Thanks for the discussion Clay!

 

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welcome back, Bob; I have missed your informative dissertations-discussions...

Is that red paint?

The stone appears to be joined together...

Get a xrf shot or send a piece to a lab... 

fred

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, fredmason said:

welcome back, Bob; I have missed your informative dissertations-discussions...

Is that red paint?

The stone appears to be joined together...

Get a xrf shot or send a piece to a lab... 

fred

It's not red paint, I've tried to scrape it off, it's a part of the matrix. I agree about the joint but upon closer inspection that line has that iron, metallic sheen in parts of it. I need to do the density test and xrf is I can find someone with a gun.

Edited by Rocky
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Posted (edited)

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Edited by Rocky

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Rocky,

The brilliant red inclusions and uniform grooves would indicate that it was something man-made.  I have no idea what though. Cool find.

billpeters

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1 hour ago, fredmason said:

welcome back, Bob; I have missed your informative dissertations-discussions...

Is that red paint?

The stone appears to be joined together...

Get a xrf shot or send a piece to a lab... 

fred

Thanks Fred! I missed your intelligent and logical banter as well. It is always a pleasure!

This is the same old road we travel every single time we see metal flecks in a matrix. There are only three options and two are very rare and highly unlikely. Even if we find nickel we have not eliminated any options. Most artifacts are going to have nickel. We can only eliminate the possibility of a meteorite if we don't have nickel. So it is quite the conundrum.

That red dot and the composition of the matrix will tell more about the provenance of this item than the presence (or not) of nickel IMHO. I think that dot is the ceramic flux on one of those high tech incendiary weld connections. No matter what this thing is or isn't I think we can easily rule out anything from space or from the earth. We can rule out meteorites with that funky red dot.  We can rule out earth with those groovy metal flakes. That leaves us with a far out artifact. Just exactly where we have always wound up every time we have ever gone down this road. 

The shape and finish indicates tumbling by a mechanical and probably not natural means. A sandy beach does not provide enough weathering and abrasion to keep iron flecks bright on the surface in a coastal environment. The shape and finish strongly suggest that this item has been mechanically tumbled and the unoxidized flecks suggest that it was fairly recent. That puts a little more distance between this spotted rascal and a space rock. And supports the theory it is an artifact.

IMHO the only exercise here is to find out what kind of slag it is and what it was rolling around in that shaped and smoothed it. At least that is where my observation and logic is taking me. I honestly do not see any indication that it could be any other way. I don't see where streak, fracture, hardness or any other test (besides bulk density) would offer any useful info on identifying this rock. With the meager information we have we can rule out almost every other possibility.

Looking for silica, ceramics, products of combustion and other metals specific to welding processes would be the shortest route to identification. Using the XRF you could probably prove it is slag a lot easier than you could prove it was not a meteorite. Use that XRF to look for stuff that slag has and meteorites don't and I bet it is a short trip.

Not trying to be a huge dick and monopolize the conversation. Just trying to spur a little thought on the processes of identification. Hopefully it is not to heavy for all you hip and groovy cats.

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19 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Thanks Fred! I missed your intelligent and logical banter as well. It is always a pleasure!

This is the same old road we travel every single time we see metal flecks in a matrix. There are only three options and two are very rare and highly unlikely. Even if we find nickel we have not eliminated any options. Most artifacts are going to have nickel. We can only eliminate the possibility of a meteorite if we don't have nickel. So it is quite the conundrum.

That red dot and the composition of the matrix will tell more about the provenance of this item than the presence (or not) of nickel IMHO. I think that dot is the ceramic flux on one of those high tech incendiary weld connections. No matter what this thing is or isn't I think we can easily rule out anything from space or from the earth. We can rule out meteorites with that funky red dot.  We can rule out earth with those groovy metal flakes. That leaves us with a far out artifact. Just exactly where we have always wound up every time we have ever gone down this road. 

The shape and finish indicates tumbling by a mechanical and probably not natural means. A sandy beach does not provide enough weathering and abrasion to keep iron flecks bright on the surface in a coastal environment. The shape and finish strongly suggest that this item has been mechanically tumbled and the unoxidized flecks suggest that it was fairly recent. That puts a little more distance between this spotted rascal and a space rock. And supports the theory it is an artifact.

IMHO the only exercise here is to find out what kind of slag it is and what it was rolling around in that shaped and smoothed it. At least that is where my observation and logic is taking me. I honestly do not see any indication that it could be any other way. I don't see where streak, fracture, hardness or any other test (besides bulk density) would offer any useful info on identifying this rock. With the meager information we have we can rule out almost every other possibility.

Looking for silica, ceramics, products of combustion and other metals specific to welding processes would be the shortest route to identification. Using the XRF you could probably prove it is slag a lot easier than you could prove it was not a meteorite. Use that XRF to look for stuff that slag has and meteorites don't and I bet it is a short trip.

Not trying to be a huge dick and monopolize the conversation. Just trying to spur a little thought on the processes of identification. Hopefully it is not to heavy for all you hip and groovy cats.

Too cool sir. I respect your opinion, bring on the heavy!! You have so many good points it must be some man made cool object. 

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Just to confuse the issue. Disko Island native iron in basalt. Native iron is rare and is only mined commercially in Greenland but there are other occurrences - including in the Labrador Trough just a few hundred miles north of Cape Cod.

The red blobs resemble the color of micron mixed Thermite often used today due to higher energy release with less material. It could also be fused refractory clay. Or it could be slag.

Occams razor and Bob say slag. ... But it's fun to speculate. :4chsmu1:

 

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12 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Too cool sir. I respect your opinion, bring on the heavy!! You have so many good points it must be some man made cool object. 

It is an awesome object. IMHO every bit as beautiful as any meteorite. It created discussion and opened minds. And it has a wonderful beauty mark. You will always wonder at this spotted rascal. If someone told you it was definitely a meteorite you would be satisfied and stop wondering about it. That would not be half as much fun as this one.

I collect rocks with unique shapes. I am drawn to hematite and sandstone concretions and any other object that is naturally sculpted. This one has a magnificent shape that screams motion. It has been in motion and is still dizzy from all of it. Now it is breaking the internet with the flecks and the freckles and the silky smooth skin. What a powerful object! I like it!

I will offer you 50 dinar per kilo for the stone. If you ever decide to sell it just contact me. Otherwise you can tell folks that it is a valuable stone and a famous prospector tried to buy it but you refused. That means no one really knows how much the spotted one is worth but it is a hell of a lot more than 50 dinar per kilo. So at least we know that now.

I have truly enjoyed looking at this little freckled rock and discussing it with you. Thanks for posting it!

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Alien Tracking Probe.  Inserted in certain Orpheus of dinosaurs for Tracking purposes.    Don't go near a Microwave Oven with it.   BAD Ju Ju. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, clay said:

Just to confuse the issue. Disko Island native iron in basalt. Native iron is rare and is only mined commercially in Greenland but there are other occurrences - including in the Labrador Trough just a few hundred miles north of Cape Cod.

The red blobs resemble the color of micron mixed Thermite often used today due to higher energy release with less material. It could also be fused refractory clay. Or it could be slag.

Occams razor and Bob say slag. ... But it's fun to speculate. :4chsmu1:

 

Nobody ever liked Disko and that aint telluric iron. We can fantasize and speculate but the job at hand is identifying Freckles. Stop trying to force your expectations on her!

I don't know what "micron mixed thermite" is but most brands of incendiary welds have published their weld metal profiles. It would be very easy to compare XRF profiles with the published info just like comparing a meteorite profile. Once again I cant post a link but Cadweld has theirs available on the internet. You would think most formulas would be very similar and the presence of combustion products and flux material in the metal would tell the tale.

Yes it could be refractory clay from a weld mold that went south. That may explain why Freckles wound up as a blob of slag rolling around in the hold of a ship instead of a piece of basalt containing telluric iron in the Labrador Trough or a meteorite coming straight outta Uranus at cosmic speeds. Whatever that spot is proves that Freckles is not a fan of Disko and is not an illegal alien. We need to stop pretending that Freckles is someone else and accept her for who she is... A sweet little ball of industrial metal with a beauty mark. 

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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12 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

I don't know what "micron mixed thermite" is but most brands of incendiary welds have published their weld metal profiles. It would be very easy to compare XRF profiles with the published info just like comparing a meteorite profile. Once again I cant post a link but Cadweld has theirs available on the internet. You would think most formulas would be very similar and the presence of combustion products and flux material in the metal would tell the tale.

Micron grinds are much finer than your typical iron oxide/aluminum mixtures. Same stuff just a lot finer material = higher heat, quicker reaction, less material needed for the job.

Most Thermite is a simple mix of iron oxide powder and aluminum powder but Cadweld is copper oxide/aluminum. I don't know if that would affect the slag product composition. In theory Thermite shouldn't leave any residue but a little aluminum oxide but real life teaches us otherwise. A lot of different metal oxides mixed with pure finely divided metals can produce a thermite reaction but I think Cadweld is the only common commercial Thermite to use copper oxide instead of iron oxide. Something to think about if Rocky can find an XRF with a usable spectrum.

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6 minutes ago, clay said:

Micron grinds are much finer than your typical iron oxide/aluminum mixtures. Same stuff just a lot finer material = higher heat, quicker reaction, less material needed for the job.

Most Thermite is a simple mix of iron oxide powder and aluminum powder but Cadweld is copper oxide/aluminum. I don't know if that would affect the slag product composition. In theory Thermite shouldn't leave any residue but a little aluminum oxide but real life teaches us otherwise. A lot of different metal oxides mixed with pure finely divided metals can produce a thermite reaction but I think Cadweld is the only common commercial Thermite to use copper oxide instead of iron oxide. Something to think about if Rocky can find an XRF with a usable spectrum.

Clay,

I am going bowfishing for a few days and I am going to bed now. Leve Freckles alone while I am gone. Focus on the differing formulations of thermite and try to keep it all nailed down around the edges. If things get freaky just list all of the individual occurrences of telluric iron and graph their distance from Cape Cod. Ill be back in a few days and we can discuss some other rock. :)

 

 

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I'd watch your back Rocky.  Bob's named your stone and thinks it's a girl. He's getting a little over protective if you know what I mean. :00000067:Now he's made up some story about how he won't be around because he's bowing fish for a few days.  :89:  I'm thinking Bob might just show up in your neck of the woods looking for "his precious". :200:

Just a heads up.

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You can't get quality entertainment like this on TV!

fred

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Yep, Fred...I've never seen so much discussion about a suppository!  :inocent: Cheers, Unc

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