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GeoJack

Gas Powered Pump

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Well I was looking at solar panels to augment my batteries as I use them to power the pumps and motor for the trommel but am now leaning toward a gas powered pump and just use the battery for the motor on the trommel. Any suggestions on what pump? Looking at the 1" size. 4-stroke or 2?

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Must be a tiny trommel? Too bad you can't use either near a stream :-(

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4 a 2 stroke water pump will have you drinking more that that pump can put out. The noise is plain terrible

 

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Yep,  2 stroke would make a sorry pump engine.   They simply do not have the torque .   You would have to have it wound up to even work. 

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I think you're on the right track going gas.  I'd first go towards something available locally where I can easily get spare parts, and then lean towards four stroke.  As a novice mechanic, I bought a four stroke leaf blower to avoid mixing gas, but later found out the two stroke engines require less maintenance.  The local store I have been looking for a gas water pump is Harbor Freight, a good casual use tool store, but not to get tools you earn a living off.

I can only really comment that I have an eliminator trommel rated at 5 tons per hour, but the "real output" is probably a tenth of that-a half ton to a ton an hour.  It is all electric and require what I think is a half horsepower electric water pump.  That setup will not run an a 2000 watt generator, but requires 3500 watts or above.  Now that I mentioned how much power it needs, I could plug it into the wall so its quiet, but who processes tons of material at the house?  When I take it to the field, I need to take the generator with me, so its no longer a quiet electric set up, but a noisy gas set up.  If I had it to do over again, I'd want an all gas set up.

IMO if you're toying around as a hobby electric items are great, but if you are going to move tons of material, you need to have gas equipment.  That eliminator trommel is as big as I can get to process material I dig by hand, getting bigger than that would require an excavator.  I would love to find pay dirt where I would need that much equipment.  If you're moving enough material you need a permit, that's awesome.  That does come with another step to follow.

3500 watts of solar panels is just too much for me to take into an area.  I can literally fit everything I need for my trommel in my pickup.  It's not going far from the pickup, but left unattended in a remote area, I consider the gas equipment less likely to get stolen then the 3500 watts of solar panels needed to power my trommel. 

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Posted (edited)

Small DIY trommel made from 5 gal buckets set up over the top of my Gold Cube with the High Banker setup on top as well. Need water for both trommel and cube.  Lipca, why can't I use a trommel / Gold Cube sluice in a stream?

Edited by GeoJack

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I want to hear his answer also, but I wonder if you could  put it in a small pond/tank like a semi recirculating system?

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When CA Fish & Game defined "suction dredging" in 2016, they basically outlawed your trommel and any pump if you get your material from the bed, bank or channel of a river, stream or lake.. I have a neighboring claim owner that had his highbanker confiscated last year even though he wasn't near the stream. From the Fish & Game: "The use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, otherwise known as suction dredging, is currently prohibited and unlawful throughout California. Under new state law effective January 1, 2016, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment is defined to mean the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals." You would think it would only apply to what we know as "suction dredging", but that is not the way they are applying it.

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17 hours ago, GeoJack said:

Small DIY trommel made from 5 gal buckets set up over the top of my Gold Cube with the High Banker setup on top as well. Need water for both trommel and cube.  Lipca, why can't I use a trommel / Gold Cube sluice in a stream?

The way the laws are written, they can pop ya just about any time they wish...IIRC, it's illegal to introduce any material into a waterway...they don't want you to put it in and they don't want you to take it out.... (where have I heard that before)???  :th:

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sic sic sic sad state of affairs here in california and now they put a miners image on the drivers license to rub it in.....^%$#@!-John :old:

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Anyone have the specific language / law on this to review? Seasonal stream, no fish.

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"mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material" this is to include water??? I can't read into that statement "removal of, or the processing of to include using a pump to get water from the stream. Also, if I pull the motor off of my trommel and put the handle back on it, it is no longer "mechanized or motorized". Gold Cube wouldn't fall under that as well, again, only pulling water from the stream, not material.

I've got a number to call the local geologist with BLM in my county on Monday. I'll report my findings. Thanks all.

 

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Posted (edited)

Picked up one of these with assorted hoses. Need one to de-water the diggings. Will see later about using it with the trommel.

81BaHFHV6FL._SL1500_.jpg

Edited by GeoJack

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2 hours ago, GeoJack said:

"mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material" this is to include water??? I can't read into that statement "removal of, or the processing of to include using a pump to get water from the stream. Also, if I pull the motor off of my trommel and put the handle back on it, it is no longer "mechanized or motorized". Gold Cube wouldn't fall under that as well, again, only pulling water from the stream, not material.

I've got a number to call the local geologist with BLM in my county on Monday. I'll report my findings. Thanks all.

 

Just be careful you don't give that geologist to much info on where you're working, he might just send the troops out to stop what you're doing!!!

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GeoJack IF you call the BLM number, if its anything like the AZ number, you need to be real careful who you talk to.  The first time I called in AZ, I got the office supervisor, and she was awesome.  The next time the guy I spoke to was not at all knowledgeable.  He couldn't correctly tell me how much to pay for staking a 40 acre claim.

I don't think you should call them at all until you can talk to a local group like maybe the AMRA or the '49 ers to see what they are doing out in the field. 

I don't know what type of land you're on, but if its not forest service, I do not even know who would the "enforcement agency" would be.  I believe there is a permitting process through the BLM, but honestly don't know who comes to check to make sure you're doing it right and tickets you if you don't. 

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16 hours ago, Au Seeker said:

Just be careful you don't give that geologist to much info on where you're working, he might just send the troops out to stop what you're doing!!!

Yep...the key is to be discreet...OTOH BLM people aren't generally concerned with what process you're using for recovery....It's the USFS that will generally give you grief and their policies will vary from district to district... trust me on this....if they don't want you in an area, for whatever reason, they'll find a way (law) to keep you out....

 I got into a disagreement with the "El Dorado" National Forest minerals manager a long time ago....maybe because he was just a jerk...maybe because his name was Richard and I referred to him as Dick....(he didn't like that) (maybe it was just the way I said it) but he went so far as to threaten me with arrest if I was caught crossing private property without written permission in my possession...You know how the land status maps look like a checkerboard???  Well, try getting "WRITTEN" permission from "Fruit Growers" (aka Sierra Pacific) to cross their property...

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Hoser John said:

sic sic sic sad state of affairs here in california and now they put a miners image on the drivers license to rub it in.....^%$#@!-John :old:

Amen...I stopped trying to follow their "RULES"....the last time I checked they were getting the water quality people involved in writing regulations aimed at highbankers, sluices and even for panning...

ETA: I AM gonna give a shot at getting a "special permit"  (CFR 423.29)  (CFR 423.50) for metal detecting the exposed river and creek bedrock around "New Melones".....we'll see what happens.

Edited by middleforkminer2

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Well I'm going to start by researching for the current wording on restrictions for mining and go from there. I'm not interested in having to look over my shoulder when working my claim, it's the reason I got it. Not going to break any rules, regulations or laws. Just the way I am. Don't need the grief. I'll be "calling for a friend" when I call BLM.  Thanks for the input guys.

 

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17 hours ago, Relichunter2016 said:

Trump needs to slap some sense into California......this is ridiculous....the land of the free..:idunno: 

Don't need any Russian influence in California, thanks. lol

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20 hours ago, GeoJack said:

Don't need any Russian influence in California, thanks. lol

HA!!!  The socialists here in Ca. make the Russians look conservative...

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I'm still curious who enforces mining on BLM as the forest service does on theirs. I do agree on not looking over your shoulder.  To me, its the enforcement section that should be answering questions, but anyone picking up a phone will and that leads to bad advice from the wrong person in the correct agency.

With a few phone calls or E-Mails you can get a BLM employee to check on a gate blocking entry to BLM lands not placed by them, but I have no idea who has the "authority" to remove it.  In the case I mentioned the person sent the BLM the wrong coords and when she got out there, their was no road blocked.  Just someone who went up the wrong wash and complained to the BLM for no reason.  That gave the rest of us a bad name.

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Just spoke with the geologist at BLM for my area. Here's his take. No turbidity reintroduced into the stream. I asked about using a sluice and he said even though it goes against that statement, he wouldn't get out of his chair to come take a look. I told him straight up "I don't want to look over my shoulder when I'm working my claim". He said those were the magic words to say to him or anyone at BLM.

I can use a electric motor to run my trommel, I can use an electric OR gas pump to draw water to my Gold Cube. I do need to have the outflow of the Cube go into a holding area but not directly into the stream. Asking about the tailings, he said they should be put back into the stream bed.

So it looks like I will be using a wheel barrow to move the material to my Gold Cube and then taking the tailings back to the stream. I can deal with that.

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The Fish & Game (warden) is the one that makes the call on the Fish & Game regulations....not a BLM geologist. Check with them to be sure. I'm assuming that you are in California?

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