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Micro Nugget

Key CA Water Board Public Meeting 5-2-17

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The California Water Board has noticed a public meeting to take place on May 2nd beginning at 9am at the CalEPA HQ Bldg located at 1001 "I" Street, 2nd floor, Sacramento, CA.  The purpose of this meeting will be to consider adoption of "proposed final provisions" regarding Part 2 of the State's Water Quality Control Plan.  Attendees will be given an opportunity to present oral comments.  Previously interested parties were given an opportunity to submit written comments.  Some of the plan relates to suction dredging in regard to what position the Water Board should take to protect water quality to the extent water quality may be impacted by dredging.

In this regard the staff of the Water Board has made a recommendation for the Board to adopt.  It reads in relevant part as follows: "Option 2 (RECOMMENDED): Emphasize that under existing law the Water Boards have discretion to address nonpoint source discharges of mercury and methylmercury production in wetlands and the Water Boards should consider such implementation measures in areas with elevated mercury concentrations."

The staff analysis gives the following one size fits all denotative definition of what is meant by an area with elevated mercury concentrations: "This would be: a site that contains naturally-enriched soil in the Coast Range of 1 ppm or higher; a site with soil or sediments with mercury concentrations of 1 ppm or higher (Section 4.5.5); or a site in historic mercury or gold mine tailings. Also, sites within historic hydraulic gold mining pits in the Sierra Nevada Mountains should be considered as high mercury areas for which mercury monitoring may be required."

The problem with Option 2 is that it appears to create an absolute presumption that any dredge claim located in historic gold mine tailings should be considered off limits to dredging regardless of any consideration of offsetting beneficial water quality contributions that suction dredgers make.

Option 1, in my opinion, is a fairer option.  That option reads as follows:  "Option 1: No Action.
In this option, Water Boards staff would continue to issue or reissue permits (e.g. WDRs or waivers of WDRs) to address discharges of non-point source pollutants, with requirements based on State Water Board’s Nonpoint Source Policy. Such requirements may include erosion and sediment control measures. Waste discharges from other sources, such as construction and road maintenance, would continue to be covered under NPDES storm water permits (See Section 6.11.) Dredging activities and wetland projects would continue to be regulated under Clean Water Act section 401 and 404 requirements or WDRs."

I hope to make an oral comment regarding the above on May 2nd.  My stupid low back, however, currently is in open rebellion 24/7.  So unless the sciatic pain miseries subside sufficiently my actual presence must remain only tentative.

I hope this brief summary is helpful in simplifying down the 700+ pages of the Part 2 Water Board Plan as to how it will impact suction dredging in California.

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They are gonna do what they want, regardless of what input you have....these public meetings are a farce...this state is in a death spiral...

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On 4/23/2017 at 3:28 PM, Micro Nugget said:

The California Water Board has noticed a public meeting to take place on May 2nd...

See below..

On 4/24/2017 at 7:58 AM, middleforkminer2 said:

They are gonna do what they want, regardless of what input you have....these public meetings are a farce...this state is in a death spiral...

Assuming what you say is true, as attested by their and other's previous actions, I think it's imperative to have as-stated wording and all factual information noted in meeting's minutes..

That can be rendered null by making the usually false assumption the recording sec'y actually and factually notes the subject matter of each speaker.. Normally, especially in hostile situations, what was actually said tends to end up getting buried under a blanket entry such as: 'Several people spoke out in regard to our planned choices of action,' or something to that effect..

Therefore I believe it is important someone tape record the proceedings and when that hearing's minutes are made available if the minutes do not reflect each individual statement a copy of the recording should be sent requesting ( read: demanding ) the minutes be modified for inclusiveness.. This is the only future proof the board willingly and willfully ignored actual science along with external input and made their decision based on a political (and also possible personal) agenda.. Better there be overkill than thinking someone else is doing it and ending up with nothing..

I also think it is important if Martin is unable to make the hearing that someone should have a copy of his words and read them in his place..

* Off-topic addendum:

Martin -- If I may I'd like to suggest you try to find a chiropractor in your area who is a graduate of National University of Health Science.. In my life I've seen many chiros (for both the same and other problems as the one you're currently enduring).. Out of all these practitioners I would have no problem stating graduates of National (of the one's I've personally visited) are the only ones whos agenda is to actually "fix" you as opposed to the ones whose purpose seems to be keeping you returning to them forever..

At one time, if not still, National was the only USA-based program that required its graduates to do a residency before going into practice.. Also, at initial visit they will tell you if your situation can be fixed by chiropracty or not.. Their objective is to remedy one's situation completely (or as good as possible, which depending on causation(s) is sometimes the case,) with return visits PRN (as needed) instead of pre-scheduling your "tune-ups," which is so typical of other chiro's who fix you juse enough to make it to your next scheduled appointment..

I had (have) sciatic problems for a good long time.. Mine went into open rebellion about 20 years ago following a car accident ( I got T-boned on the driver's side ).. After going through either three or four chiros in my area over the course of nearly two years (this is on top of the ones I'd seen and discounted previously) I got recommended to a chiro in Orlando who had 'magic hands'.. Kind of a longish drive, but at that point I was willing to try just about anything.. I didn't know from nuttin' about chiro schools at that time, but I must admit I was more-than-a-bit impressed by the fact nearly every available inch of this guy's walls were covered with autographed photos from professional sport's athletes of every stripe, stunt men, actors, actresses, dare-devils, race-car drivers etc., etc. thanking him for putting them back together again.. Ultimately he put me back together again too.. It was a sad day indeed when he passed on entirely too young as just another lied-to agent orange victim.. I got to watch him slowly die right before my eyes without knowing a thing about what was going on within him until a couple months before the end, when he finally told all of us (his patients..) He actually worked on me in his office three days before his passing, which was in a hospital.. Cause of death: Drowning.. Thank a Viet Nam vet today..!

Anyhow, I was eventually able to find a Nat'l grad local to me.. Hands not quite as magic as Doc's were, but wayyy magic enough.. He's been able to hold my sciatica in check for going on ten years.. I also credit him for keeping me out from under the knife, as those two herniated neck disks are now five in total, plus one mid-back and two low-back, and the specialist continues to tell me I'm still not yet a candidate for "the plate," something I hope to never be.. The capper is I see the chiro when I feel things getting shaky, not every-other-week or however many times a month all the others would be scheduling me.. Since PRN is the only way to discern true level of improvement over time, why don't all chiro's operate in this manner..? I think we all know the answer to that one..

Swamp

PS: I didn't intend for this to become an unsolicited testamonial.. I was merely sharing what's worked for me from a 1st-hand POV and long-term usage.. This is how it came out.. I hold a belief no one should suffer needlessly, especially when it can be fixed with a simple change of venue.. Here's what I know and how I know it..

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8 minutes ago, Swampstomper Al said:

See below..

Assuming what you say is true, as attested by their and other's previous actions, I think it's imperative to have as-stated wording and all factual information noted in meeting's minutes..

That can be rendered null by making the usually false assumption the recording sec'y actually and factually notes the subject matter of each speaker.. Normally, especially in hostile situations, what was actually said tends to end up getting buried under a blanket entry such as: 'Several people spoke out in regard to our planned choices of action,' or something to that effect..

Therefore I believe it is important someone tape record the proceedings and when that hearing's minutes are made available if the minutes do not reflect each individual statement a copy of the recording should be sent requesting ( read: demanding ) the minutes be modified for inclusiveness.. This is the only future proof the board willingly and willfully ignored actual science along with external input and made their decision based on a political (and also possible personal) agenda.. Better there be overkill than thinking someone else is doing it and ending up with nothing..

  I'm not sure what the legalities of tape recordings are....how much would you care to bet that the water board would object?

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27 minutes ago, middleforkminer2 said:

  I'm not sure what the legalities of tape recordings are....how much would you care to bet that the water board would object?

Valid point..

I can't imagine a public meeting not falling under a Sunshine Law of one sort or another, but then again I don't know a thing about CA legalese in that type of setting, or any other setting for that matter..

I 'suppose' they could object to an audio recording being made of the proceedings due to a fear of the possibility of selective editing.. But if that's their argument even though there is nothing illegal about doing so (audio recording the proceedings,) I'd accomidate them -- by saying: "Fine.. We'll video it instead, with a time-stamp signature running throughout.."

If they object to that tell them you'll video the ceiling.. It doesn't matter what you video, the time signature is going to match up with the audio..

Heck, as far behind as I am in tec these days, there is probably a time-stamp signature app out there for straight audio recording..

Swamp

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On 4/24/2017 at 4:58 AM, middleforkminer2 said:

They are gonna do what they want, regardless of what input you have....these public meetings are a farce...this state is in a death spiral...

Unfortunately Middleforkminer is right.... I dont work for the California Water Board, but I do work for the water district in Nevada. They legally have to have public meetings/ public input, but fall on deaf ears once decisions are made, which have already been made behind closed doors long before these meetings.

  Anything to do with environmental cleanup, is quickly adopted especially in California.... A lot of money and time is being spent on fighting to get dredging back, but everyone I talk to believes it will never come back. If you really want to get back into dredging, think of opening a small non profit environmental business " Environmental mercury cleanup"  then dredge these locations which are high in mercury.... just remember any gold found, or mercury laden with gold is properly disposed of :D:200:....  Just like these cement/ sand/ gravel companies that can operate in places where prospecting/ mining is not allowed, they never keep any of the gold they come across :stupidrb:  but its a little weird they have these huge trommels, and the output of the trommel goes into an enclosed building..... I guess they dont want the wind to blow away their sand/ gravel .... :arrowheadsmiley:

Dave

Edited by DolanDave
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No...dredging will never return...just like the moratorium they put on mountain lions...even when the fish and game dept. said the numbers of them had increased dramatically and hunting them should be restored....the greenies  got it put on a ballot measure and got hunting them banned permanently...it passed by HUGE funding of misleading commercials depicting a large pack of hounds tearing into a badly injured cat...in the case of dredging, it would be easy to sway public opinion with old film footage...common sense in this day and age,is next to non existent...:grr01:

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Hey Swamp: There is a parallel of sorts between working one's way through the medical agonies of sciatica and working one's way through the tortures of the bureaucratic snake dance -- they each involve the necessary absorption of a lot of pain at just about every turn of the maze and a lot of guts to stay in the fight, but the sweet taste of maybe -- just maybe -- overcoming each makes me want to remain in the hunt.  It ain't over 'til it's over.  Call me crazy but I have this weirdly confident feeling that it ain't over yet and we soon may be getting some vindication.  If I can possibly make it to Sacramento on the 2nd I will be there and say my two cents.  And thereafter, if I can possibly get back into my wetsuit, there just may be a few more nuggets waiting to clank their pretty, metallic music all the way up my dredge  nozzle.  And then... how sweet it will be!!

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On 4/29/2017 at 1:02 PM, Micro Nugget said:

Hey Swamp: There is a parallel of sorts between working one's way through the medical agonies of sciatica and working one's way through the tortures of the bureaucratic snake dance -- they each involve the necessary absorption of a lot of pain at just about every turn of the maze and a lot of guts to stay in the fight, but the sweet taste of maybe -- just maybe -- overcoming each makes me want to remain in the hunt.  It ain't over 'til it's over.  Call me crazy but I have this weirdly confident feeling that it ain't over yet and we soon may be getting some vindication.  If I can possibly make it to Sacramento on the 2nd I will be there and say my two cents.  And thereafter, if I can possibly get back into my wetsuit, there just may be a few more nuggets waiting to clank their pretty, metallic music all the way up my dredge  nozzle.  And then... how sweet it will be!!

Yours is exactly the attitude every western states miner / prospector at this time should have..

Why..? Because I'd hate to think gentlemen like Scott Harn, Joe Martori, Clark Pearson and all the other good folks at MMAC are in any manner, way, shape or form wasting their time helping the original mining districts bring themselves up-to-date..

I'd further hate to think the above three mentioned individuals have been wasting their time as well as out-of-pocket $$s travelling back-and-forth to D.C. in order to educate our representatives about the truths re mining via numerous meetings loaded with factual information instead of made up BS..

I'd even further hate to think the Bill they and their legal representatives have penned ( along with a helping hand from Representatives' and Senators' legal eagles in getting the "legalese" correct ) that will clarify what a traditional Mining District is and will restore Mining Districts as THE entity that deceides whether a road or route should be open as well as jointly governing mining on public and federal lands via an MOU with the BLM has been a huge waste of time and money on their part..

In other words, it's time for everyone who up until now have only whined and complained about what has been happening as far as overreach goes to alter their tune and drop a little skin into the game..

A change is coming.. One for the better, finally..! Everyone needs to be on the same page.. As the old saying goes: You're either with us or agin' us.. If you want to continue to call yourself a prospector or miner, now is the time to (begin) walk the positive walk and stop with the negative talk..!

Through hard work by very few people, an inroad of correction and opportunity has presented itself.. Now is the time to take back what has been rightfully ours all along.. The train's waiting at the station; climb aboard..!

mmacusa.org 

Swamp

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Old Sawbones put me on a no travel status until after surgery on my low back next week.  So, sorry to say, I'm grounded and stuck here in Yucca Valley until then.  But my 18 page public comment opus was filed back in February.  Maybe someone will actually read it.  Hope springs eternal.

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16 hours ago, Micro Nugget said:

...So, sorry to say, I'm grounded and stuck here in Yucca Valley until then.  But my 18 page public comment opus was filed back in February.  Maybe someone will actually read it.  Hope springs eternal.

I believe there's a higher order of consciousness out there where given / under the right set of circumstances it doesn't matter whether certain pennings are ever seen or not by another pair of eyes ( on the front end.. ) The mere fact you ( and others such as Hoser John, those I can't name here and more I don't even know ) made the effort of putting pen to paper is enough to help nudge the kozmic scales of justice.. The actual effort needs to be undertaken though.. Merely thinking it doesn't do anything positive nor does the balance remain neutral.. It works out being a net negative..

The situations to which I refer aren't the ones where folks flood a representative's inbox to the point that when his sec'y brings him a stack of emails he says to himself something like: This zoning issue really matters to my constituents.. Perhaps I should take a look-see for myself instead of relying on what my underlings have been telling me...

I'm talking Big Picture matters -- especially those where federally granted rights have either been altered or negated by anyone / anything from a local power broker all the way to other federal agents / agencies whos job is to enforce those rights as written while not having the authority to alter or re-write them but have been doing so anyhow and getting away with it -- until now..

At the same time I also believe your words will be read -- with the caveat "eventually" being a top-tier factor.. For you see, when the time comes to write non-biased history, all the words matter.. In cases like these, after-the-fact yet deadline-meeting submissions are equally important as all other materials used in assembling the construct..

Swamp

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