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Relichunter2016

Lithium Battery Charger question

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My question is can a charger go bad even though the battery goes green after over night charging? One of the batteries...my old battery I have had for two years  gets a full charge and functions for about 4.5 hours when the charges goes down to 7.5 the low battery tone goes on.. The battery I just bought from a member gets an over night charge and voltage goes to 7.9 volts.....and low battery tone goes off at 7.5 volts after 2.45 hours. Is a 24 hour charge required..I just can't imagine anything else wrong, the battery I just bought looks brand spanking new with a green inspection sticker on bottom, if it were used much, this sticker would be gone like on my older battery. So, would it be smart to buy a new 120 volt to 12 volt charger?

Any advice would be appreciated....

Fred

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R2016 I'm not a battery expert but what is the volts after the green light goes on. I have old and new batts and at full

charge the volts are 8.3 or 8.4. Any battery should be charged after an all night charge, 8 -10 hrs. Just guessing I'm 

thinking your charger is doing it's job but you have a weak battery. It could have been dropped which can wreck a batt.                                                     

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Great topic, I'm looking for a good charger for 9 volts, and the AA and AAA's.

 

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Hi Garimpo,

 

Yeah I am afraid that may be the problem....old batteries..I am going to give it a full charge again and see what the voltage is. Are you using the Minelab supplied silver batteries? I may have to just buy a new one....damned things are 440 bucks !! thanks for the reply.....maybe I' ll just charge them and bring them both to my hunts...:cry2: I can get 4 hours on one and 2.5 on the other....lol. :thumbsupanim that's a good days hunt for me anyways.... I can squeeze whats left out of them...and throw them in the fire....:2mo5pow: later..

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Fred, just buy you one of Doc's pocket rocket system, You will be way ahead. Grubstake

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You get two batteries, the charger, booster, and control box cover for $469.00. then you won't have to worries about them long power cords anymore. Grubstake

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I'm thinking battery pack, not charger.. As Don noted it doesn't take much to put the kaboosh to 'em.. The tec keeps improving all the time, but as of about six years ago I recall reading a pack can get as few as 100 charges under less-than-ideal charging circumstances, with 300 charges being really good before it starts losing holding power..

From what you describe about the two packs I'm thinking you've simply reached the limit on your original.. The replacement though..? To me it sounds like battery recharging memory overwrite / re-programming (doubt this is the actual terminology..) When you recharge a much-less-than-depleted battery pack, especially constantly and early in its life cycle, the pack soon accepts that level of discharge as its new normal..

I don't know if this can be reversed or not.. I would guess multiple factors come into play -- how many times done, how long pack sat with the full charge to slowly discharge etc.. I'd at least give it a try by totally discharging the pack under power, doing a recharge and repeat a couple three times.. It's possible nothing will change.. It's possible you may double duration.. I doubt it will get back to factory spec, but hey, who knows, right..? I just know it's worth a try.. Curious to hear what the end result will be in your given situation too..

Swamp 

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Swamp, 

Good points on totally depleting the battery I just bought, I don't think it was used much, perhaps just charged and left in storage. So makes sense to deplete  it low and give it a full charge up and try that a few times. I am no expert on batteries, but thought I read one time that these lithium batteries have a internal memory or something along those lines. Depleting it and than bringing them up could possibly reset it, not sure, but hey..worth a try. Thanks !

Fred 

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I think all the forums carry them, I know ROBS and AZO do, Grubstake

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4 hours ago, Swampstomper Al said:

I'm thinking battery pack, not charger.. As Don noted it doesn't take much to put the kaboosh to 'em.. The tec keeps improving all the time, but as of about six years ago I recall reading a pack can get as few as 100 charges under less-than-ideal charging circumstances, with 300 charges being really good before it starts losing holding power..

From what you describe about the two packs I'm thinking you've simply reached the limit on your original.. The replacement though..? To me it sounds like battery recharging memory overwrite / re-programming (doubt this is the actual terminology..) When you recharge a much-less-than-depleted battery pack, especially constantly and early in its life cycle, the pack soon accepts that level of discharge as its new normal..

I don't know if this can be reversed or not.. I would guess multiple factors come into play -- how many times done, how long pack sat with the full charge to slowly discharge etc.. I'd at least give it a try by totally discharging the pack under power, doing a recharge and repeat a couple three times.. It's possible nothing will change.. It's possible you may double duration.. I doubt it will get back to factory spec, but hey, who knows, right..? I just know it's worth a try.. Curious to hear what the end result will be in your given situation too..

Swamp 

 

4 hours ago, Relichunter2016 said:

Swamp, 

Good points on totally depleting the battery I just bought, I don't think it was used much, perhaps just charged and left in storage. So makes sense to deplete  it low and give it a full charge up and try that a few times. I am no expert on batteries, but thought I read one time that these lithium batteries have a internal memory or something along those lines. Depleting it and than bringing them up could possibly reset it, not sure, but hey..worth a try. Thanks !

Fred 

Lithium batteries in general don't have the memory issues that AL is referring too,  this memory affect has long been known in association with Nickel-Cadmium and Nickel-Metal Hydride batteries, but was not an issue with Lithium batteries in common normal everyday use.

That being said back in 2013 researchers found that Lithium batteries under special circumstances do indeed suffer from a similar memory effect, but the Lithium batteries memory effect only seems to come into play in electric vehicles, but not as prevalent or non-existent when used in power tools and in this case metal detectors where the batteries usually gets totally or mostly discharged before re-charging, so I don't think that isn't the issue that Fred is experiencing.

Here's a link to an article that describes the Lithium batteries memory issue, it's technical but overly so,

https://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries

On another note it is possible to have a defective Lithium battery that's either new or relatively new, the company I work for recently replace my old Dewalt Ni-Cad powered drill and impact driver that the batteries weren't accepting a charge any longer with the latest Dewalt drill and impact driver having Lithium batteries, well the 2 batteries seemed to have issues from the start in that they never seemed to take a full charge according the onboard charge status lights built into the battery case, there are 3 lights, 1 light being the lowest charge only capable of about 10  minutes or so of use down to depleted charge state thus requiring that it needs to be charged, 2 lights still has usable charge, 3 lights indicates full charge, well from the start the batteries would never get to 3 lights full charge status before the smart charger indicated a full charge and stop the charging cycle, they would only get to 2 lights, after a month or so of use finally 1 of the batteries started to getting fully charged and getting to 3 lights on the battery, so I figured that the other battery would soon follow suit, but that never happened with the other battery, just the opposite, now that battery. less than 2 months old, needs to be replaced, it still only get to 2 lights before charger shuts downs, but it will only last about 2 to 4 minutes before it's complete drained of power, also when you put it on charge the charger charges it to 2 lights within a few minutes and then shuts downs, this battery is useless  to me because I use the drill several times during the day depending on what I'm doing and the impact i use constantly no matter what i'm doing that day, waiting on a new battery which i need desperately, the 1 battery just won't keep up with using it in both drill and impact driver requiring me to wait until it get charged to continue the work of the day!!:2mo5pow:

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17 minutes ago, Au Seeker said:

 

Lithium batteries in general don't have the memory issues...

Interesting, Skip.. Thanks for sharing this info..
Back to square one for Fred I suppose, bummer..
I do still lean more toward a battery defect than charger issue though, based on your input experience..

Swamp

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Yeah....I went out today and hooked up the new/used battery I bought....:grr01:lasted 1 hour after I charged it all night. It actually shut off after the few low battery beeps....on its own. I am positive its defective....sucks big time...

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Try running the so called bad batteries on another beeper and see what happens-it might be your beeper or the battery cord-I assume when your using a charger its your wall charger-have you tried the 12 volt car charger yet :idunno: Mike C...:200:

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Interesting Mike, did not know that...actually I spoke with the seller and they stated it worked fine on their detector....well..problem solved, I am sending it back and seller sending 

me another..It could be combination my cord and detector and this battery....? Batteries are funny that way.....Yes it was wall charger....

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I have several old NiCad batteries that now and then I have to do a "deep cycle" on them. I just put them in the machine, turn it on and listen to it for 4-8 hrs. On a detector once I get the low battery signal I just recharge the batt. at times I have to do this about four times. When a batt. develops a memory it has spikes in it and by doing a "deep cycle" discharge that burns off the spikes sometimes so you can get more hours of run time. 

One of my chargers that I've had for eons also discharges a battery (s)  before recharging it. 

I have a underwater camera that eats LI-ion batts. Just last month I bought four new Li-ion batts and the charger for Li-ion Batts. You can't use a NiCad charger on Li-ion batts. 

 

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Batteries sure have changed in the past years ....for the better, for one they are much lighter... but watch out for those exploding Samsung 7 Note....

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4 hours ago, Relichunter2016 said:

Batteries sure have changed in the past years ....for the better, for one they are much lighter... but watch out for those exploding Samsung 7 Note....

My work phone is due for an upgrade it's a Samsung S3 and I'm going specifically request the Samsung Note 7 on the upgrade because I want the HOTTEST phone on the market!!  :ROFL::4chsmu1: 

Image result for explosion animated emoji         Image result for big fire animated emoji

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Lithium batteries are the Bomb ! LOL    They do NOT like being fully discharged.  It will kill them.  Shorting them out WILL start fires. 

They don't like Heat. 

They begin to Self destruct the day there made.  They can show a full charge and the Amp Hour rating on old batteries deteriorate over time.  You will find that as the battery ages the run time available from them gets shorter and shorter.

 

 

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Now this is why I ask these questions on this forum....people mistake us prospectors as dirty old nasty  men/ and I am sure some very fine women are here  hiding out., eager to dig gold and crave the hermit lifestyle.....may be true..:yesss: but the reality is we have some intelligent folks here.

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Li Ion Batteries Rock for what they can do.

There Light.

Have Tremendous Amp Hour Ratings for weight and size.  This is were the Fire hazard comes from.

Unlike Most chargeable Batteries they need to be charged in a special fashion.

Battery Protection circuits are needed for charging limiting Charging Currents as well as Charging Voltage.  Said circuits also shut down the charging if the battery cells are not balanced or batteries reach a specified Voltage. Charged.

This charging circuit is built into most  lap top batteries and others there so cheap.

I use one Salvaged from a old Lap top battery to charge mine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/262511676500?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Relichunter2016 said:

Now this is why I ask these questions on this forum...

Sometimes we can still get stoopid.. For instance, I'm still wondering how I gave a Ni-Cad solution to a Li Ion question.. Even though Li wasn't mentioned in the Q it was bright flashing neon in the subject line.. Duh..

Swamp

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Ni Cads are my favorite battery if weights not a issue.  Treated right they can last years and years. Li Ions seldom make two or three years.  Hell, I have some I know are over 7 years old and march on.  NiMh batteries SUCK.  Thinking they was the greatest new thing I paid $70.00 for a pair for the old Makita Drill. Self Discharge so bad you couldn't depend on them if they wasn't charged that week. I let them Freeze once and they was history. 

 

I'm thinking we need some ATOMIC batteries.  Yep That's the Ticket.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery

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Here's a quick overview of the three primary rechargeables as they relate to our usage..
Don't like to use Wikipedia as a source but it was easy for this purpose.. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel–cadmium_battery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel–metal_hydride_battery

Swamp

Edited by Swampstomper Al

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 I'll call your atomic battery and raise the ante with a pebble reactor

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